Soon to be new owner of 2021 320 S Camper boondock questions.

Mrlaroo

Hi Gang, So as the title says I am about to purchase the new 2021 320 S boondock camper. The prices I have qutoed seem to be all over the place, guess the closer you are to Ohio the cheaper the camper is, I am out in Oregon. So I have a couple questions.. 

1. I will be using this too for winter camping in cold temps and high elevations, will I be able to use the toilet in the winter? I hear of people winterizing their campers. With the toilet connected to seems to be the fresh water tank from the videos I have watched,  will I have issues with the pipes potentially freezing? 


2. Also, totally newbie in regards to trailers, how do they handle in the snow? The TV I will be using is a 5th gen 4runnner, the weight of the trailer is about a 43% of the tow capacity of the 4runner.  

3. I am looking at add on's, what crucial ones do you recommend, certain hitch, brake controller, etc?

4. Some say the bumper/fender comes with the boondock model  but the site says made to order, which is it?


Thanks for any input?

Denny16

Congratulations!  To answer some of your questions:
1. Toilet is a cassette toilet, which is inside the camper so it should not freeze if cabin is heated.  Fresh water tank is under the trailer, so drain it and blow out the water, would keep it from freezing and use bottled water to flush the toilet, and washing up, etc, kept inside the heated camper.  

You can run the Alde with out water in the system, use by-pass valve, following the winter procedure.  RV antifreeze can be used, but I prefer just blowing the water out of the tank and u dear trailer lines.  Grey water tank is also under trailer, just add the RV anti-freeze, and in Oregon you should be OK from freezing lines or tank.

2. TV should be fine

3. You will need some type of brake controller, I use Kurt Echo Bluetooth controller, that does not require wiring to the TV.  It works fine on my TaB 400, it should work with the smaller 320.

4.  Ask the dealer, fenders come with the Boondock, similar to other models,rear bumper may me an add on extra, not sure, but dealer will know.
cheers

MuttonChops

Mrlaroo said:

1. I will be using this too for winter camping in cold temps and high elevations, will I be able to use the toilet in the winter? I hear of people winterizing their campers. With the toilet connected to seems to be the fresh water tank from the videos I have watched,  will I have issues with the pipes potentially freezing?

Welcome to the Family !

T@B is not a four season travel trailer design. This means (a) make sure to have extra propane or 120VAC power available.  Not fun waking up in a cold trailer and the Adle has no energy source.  And (b) water lines and tanks can/will freeze so best action is not to use them.  That said I do use my toilet for short duration in below 32F above 10F conditions by keeping a jug of 50/50 RV antifreeze in bathroom and use that for flushing/rinsing the toilet . . . then dump as soon as possible.  Side note;  many public dump stations are closed in the winter months.

I've only done this on winter snowbird runs.  While driving south/north in WA, OR northern CA.  South bound fill water system in central CA, northbound empty water system at last stop before northern CA.

Would expect the 50/50 flushing mix would also work with a cassette style toilet if that is what your new unit has.

Mrlaroo said:

2. Also, totally newbie in regards to trailers, how do they handle in the snow? The TV I will be using is a 5th gen 4runnner, the weight of the trailer is about a 43% of the tow capacity of the 4runner. 

No idea.  Have only been in snow like conditions while driving once and that was mixed rain/snow with some road slush. Work to avoid poor driving condition, makes for a happy trip.

Mrlaroo said:

4. Some say the bumper/fender comes with the boondock model  but the site says made to order, which is it?

Don't know what you mean by "bumper/fender" . . . the new rear bush guard thing?

Mrlaroo

Thanks Denny & Muttonchops, You two rock! I figured it wasn't ideal in the winter time but good to know there is still potential to use the toilet.  Yes I would be using the new cassette toilet Nucamp added to the camper. I am really into a sport called snowkiting and the place I go to do it is in Utah. I do have access there to being able to dump the cassette so that helps.

 I guess I will just have to see how far I can stretch a full propane tank with the heater that is installed in the camper. Seems like the fender is an add on and not part of the boondock package. Good to know on the brake controller, will look into it.  I really appreciate your words of wisdom, so thanks for your replys. I am excited, did a lot of research on campers and the 320 is what I choose. Thanks again and take care.

jkjenn

Congrats!

I would add antifreeze to the toilet mix, too. Also, the bathroom gets very cold. Leave your door open and it makes a big difference. 

Yes, generally, the closer to the factory, the cheaper.

There is no true rear bumper option. A rear brush guard might be what he is referring to. It is an aluminum cage across the plastic rear end sheath on the back of the trailer.

GatorEgg

If you’re going frequently in the cold country, save for a little longer for a four season trailer.  There’s very nice small ones out there.  The T@b is nowhere near one.  Of course you can use one.  You can also sleep in a tent in the snow.  Oliver, Escape, Bigfoot, Airstream are a few which come to mind.

VictoriaP

Is snow camping going to be the primary use for your RV? If so, I completely agree with @GatorEgg that a Tab is the wrong tool for the job. It’s like buying a hammer when you need a screwdriver—it’s not a bad thing in and of itself, but it’s going to take a lot of work or compromise to make it adequate for your needs, and it’ll never be as good at it. A four season trailer is purpose built for harsh weather camping. Yes, you could add tank & pipe heaters to a Tab, but you can’t replicate the thicker walled construction and better windows (which means needing less propane to heat), or the insulated battery/LP compartment that a four season trailer already has.

Honestly, it’s the one thing that will drive me away from nuCamp if I decide to jump up in trailer size. I think it’s incredibly short sighted of them not to make a four season camper...and I’m not even into snow sports. I just want to be able to take mine out year round without having to compromise on how it’s used.

Roamey

Aggressive Off-Road Tires

Aluminum Utility Platform

Boondock Entry Handle & Graphics

Custom Rear Aluminum Cage

Heavy-Duty Entry Door Step

Heavy-Duty Pitched Axle

Made-To-Order Boondock Fenders

Solar Package

Yakima® Roof Rack

Boondock Package for T@B lists the fenders and the rear aluminum cage. 

Cbusguy

@VictoriaP how much do you think  a 4 season package would add to the cost of the trailers?

I imagine an extensive redesign would be needed to move valves and such into warm spaces.  Keep in mind we are talking about a design a no knowledge newbie could take out and not completely destroy on their first trip in cold weather.

There have been forum members who have modified their tabs to 3 1/2 season campers.    The difference is these owners understand the risk and how the systems work.  It works for them.


Initially I was thinking making 4 season package an option.   How do you do it without opening your self up to a big stack of warranty claims from in experienced owners with broken pipes and fixtures?

There are 4 season trailers available......the answer doesn't always need to be nucamp

VictoriaP

@Cbusguy Don’t quote me on this as I’m going by memory and it’s been a couple of years...but I think the price difference on the 4 season Winnebago trailers a friend was looking at came out to about $3-4k before negotiations. I remember it wasn’t huge overall, but how much was included with that would be another question. Agreed, though, that to do it right requires significant redesign of the existing 320 & 400, which is why the perfect time to introduce it on the 320 would have been with the new 2021 design. Missed opportunity, I think.

And yes, other brands exist with the functionality I want that I’m keeping an eye on (cough...Lance). But I do like nuCamp’s quality, floorplans, and workmanship. 

DougH

@Mrlaroo:

Q1. Everyone has differing expectations and experiences when winter camping. My own limited snow camping sessions for snowshoeing and ski touring have been along the lines of what @Denny16, @MuttonChops, and @jkjenn describe. I've done the approach with RV antifreeze added to black tank and gray tank, and I've done add-on electrical heating to semi exposed drains, feeds, and tanks. Both work, at least above 10F.

I've also looked exhaustively at recent model trailers under 18' that have 4 season capabilities. They're considerably heavier, which limits the choice of tow vehicles, and they often have wood frame elements which I'd rather avoid, in case of water intrusion. I'm sticking with the T@B, at least until we become a larger crew, since I get much better mileage with a smaller tow vehicle. But the larger problem, at least for me, isn't keeping things thawed while camping as long as the winds aren't too high. It's more dealing with travel in subzero temperatures. Unless you run considerable propane or electric heat in the basement while headed down the highway, things freeze up. Even with a model where the gate valves are fully enclosed. Driving with propane running gets mixed opinions, but I've heard it's not allowed in some areas. So I'm not sure the gains made by 4 season trailer capabilities are always worth the downsides. And the canister toilet should be even more winter proof if you can easily dump it before heading out again. Not always easy to find an open dump station for black & gray tanks in the winter. We have dual pane windows on the T@B, but as @VictoriaP says, our thinner walls will never be as warm as some 4 season campers with 5" walls. So I bring an extra tank of propane on longer trips, and leave the window shades open in the day... since you will go through more propane when boondocking than with a true 4 season camper.

Q2. FWIW, I've frequently traveled in 6" snow with snow tires, all wheel drive, and only chains when icy. The T@B doesn't feel any different behind the car, deepish snow or not. At all. I guess the trailer tires just travel in the TV tread marks. Both station wagon and trailer are the same exact 71" from outside of tire to outside of tire along the axle. Not sure what the 4Runner tread total width is. I've not had the T@B go sideways on me, but I travel pretty slow in winter conditions, unless I need to build a bit of momentum for a slick uphill. Used to camp and tear around the mountains in a modified Mini Countryman all wheel drive, before getting soft and buying the T@B. Can't have much fun winter driving when pulling a camper. Sigh. Braking on icy 5-10% downgrades on my most recent trip pre-pandemic was fine, but I replaced my trailer tires with slightly more aggressive 7/32" tread to go with the latest gen Blizzaks with 10/32" tread. I carry an extra long tow strap and portable winch just in case.

I've seen YouTube vids of snowkiting. Looks like a blast. Closest I've gotten is skijourning, but dogs can't get the same speed as a strong wind on a big enough lake. What kind of terrain does snowkiting work on? Up and down moderate slopes?

Mrlaroo

wow thanks a bunch for your input everyone. It seems like I am limited due to my TV so not sure what route I can really go in regards to a 4 season trailer.  Bummed for sure, I wonder if Nucamp will ever winterize the Tab 320 or 400. I have so much to think about from everyone's advice so thanks so much for it.  

I do have Blizzaks on my 4runner and was thinking of upgrading the tires that come with the trailer for winter time too. Yes snowkiting is a blast, fresh tracks uphill, downhill and all over.  Thanks for experience driving during the winter, that's a little more reassuring. 

db_cooper

My experience pulling our T@b Outback is similar to @DougH,  the camper seems to follow perfectly in the track of our Xterra.  As with anything, dry snow is great, but deep slush things get "wiggly".  Overall, I find the T@b works great for skiing in the PNW,  not so cold as to need "4 season".  We use the black tank with antifreeze, and get about 4 days before needing to dump, and 4 -6 days out of the propane tank.

We've been looking at 4 season truck campers and with the exception of the Cirrus, they use forced blower furnaces, and basically you need hookups or a generator.   And then you have to find a way to heat them while travelling, or you'll still end up with frozen pipes.   It also appears that condensation under the bed in the cab over is an issue even with the best 4 season campers (NL and Bigfoot).  I'm not sure "4 season" is really that much better. 

DougH

@Mrlaroo Send us a video or pic of you sailing directly over your T@B parked near a snow drift when you get a chance.  

NuCamp may even make it an advertising shot, or at least add it to their IG feed.

The electric heating I added to my 320 helped:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/130816#Comment_130816

A couple folks have enclosed drains and tanks, and have extended the Alde system to warm that area.  You have options.

Denny16

How practical camping in winter is, depends on what overnight and day temps are.  
Yes the TaB is not a 4-season camper, but in warmer (above 20 degree) weather, with sun, no blizzards, the Alde should keep things from freezing inside the camper.  The TaB toilet/shower is heated by the Alde as is the coach on all four sides from floor level up.

Issue is going down the road, and keeping the heat in the TaB, running propane can be a risk, a small one on the TaB, as gas only goes to Alde and stove, or running a generator to get 110 VAC 20 amps to run the Alde on the 1Kw setting which should keep the cabinets, toilet from freezing, and add RV antifreeze to gray and black tanks, allowing it to run down to the valves, by cracking them open till it starts to run out.

I took a Class B camper up to the Southern Calif mountains for winter sports camping, and the water tanks were inside the coach, under the dinette seat, holding black/grey tank under the other one.  My GF didn’t want to run the gas heater whilst we were sleeping in the cab over bunk, and guess what — we woke up,to find the tanks frozen!  This was in mid 20s F overnight, so it does not take much to get frozen systems.
cheers

Mrlaroo

You guys are awesome! I am sticking with my order of the 320, just looks like it won't be ideal come winter but I should be able to make it work. My main concern of course is just keeping the cab heated, looks like I will have to bring my solar shower and also spare water in jerry cans. Now if only Nucamp's facility would open so they could ship my unit. So excited, thanks for the words of wisdom, will keep you all updated.

Mrlaroo

Well I wanted to thank everyone for your responses. I decided to pass on the TaB and put an order in for a new 2020 Ford awd transit I plan to convert. Since the Tab is far from ideal for winter use I couldn't justify the purchase of it. I am bummed as I would of saved a good amount of money but on to the next. thanks again, aloha.

DougH

@Mrlaroo ; I've seen a ton of incredibly beautiful Transit conversions (at least on YouTube and Go-Van). Planning it all out and doing the build is half the fun.

Mrlaroo

You are right, there are some creative conversions out there. I am really excited to get going on it. It's not even in production right now so will have a bit of a wait for it. Thanks Doug, appreciate your words. 

WyoReddog

Hi All--another newbie here. Am thinking of buying a 2021 Tab 320-S boondock and am wondering if it's possible to order the squarish diamond plate fenders seen on some other older models? Or is it possible to add these later? I just like the look and ability to set things on them. Also can you order the cage rack to put a full-size spare as I've seen in previous year pics? Thanks!!

Sharon_is_SAM

Please contact Repairs@nucamprv.com.  NuCamp no longer allows customizations of the trailers while on the production line, however, they do many things post-production.  Austin in repairs can find out if your requests are doable.

ScottG

Most configurations I've seen with such fenders involve wheels that sit outside the camper body sidewall. Since the T@Bs wheels sit in wheel wells inside the sidewall, such a fender would just be sticking out over...nothing.

I do agree it would make a nice side table--our friends with an R-pod use their fender as one--but it would probably look funny on a T@B unless you could also mount a wider axle to move the wheels out. Now that would be slick!

WyoReddog

@ScottG —Makes sense now—But so much cuter!

ScottG

Agreed! Another benefit would be more space under the benches. However, I do like that the T@B with its inset wheels is no wider than my tow vehicle.

TerryHutchinson

I recently traded my Tacoma for a Ford F150.  The 4runner is very similar to the Tacoma in towing capability.  Both can tow the TaB 320 easily, however my Tacoma with the double cab had a max payload of only 1150 pounds.  With two of us in the front seat, a largish dog, a 150lb canopy, and a working tongue weight of maybe 350, I was concerned that I would be counting pounds as I loaded stuff in the truck bed.  

CharlieRN

Mrlaroo said:

You guys are awesome! I am sticking with my order of the 320, just looks like it won't be ideal come winter but I should be able to make it work. My main concern of course is just keeping the cab heated, looks like I will have to bring my solar shower and also spare water in jerry cans. Now if only Nucamp's facility would open so they could ship my unit. So excited, thanks for the words of wisdom, will keep you all updated.

My situation is quite similar to yours - I ordered a 320 Boondock and hope to use it for occasional winter camping. I know it's far from the ideal winter camper, but my plans for snow camping are pretty limited. I'm encouraged from what I see in this thread and some others on the forum, that they are realistic.

In my case, the T@B won't be delivered until March, but that's not really too much of a drawback. I wouldn't be using it this winter anyway since I'm new to trailer camping and need some experience. The wait gives me time to gather information and plan, and then to experiment with the Boondock in the spring through to fall. And of course, I don't have to store it this winter . . .