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Comments
Tampa FL
I strongly feel this should be a recall issue for Alde (not sure what nuCamp’s liability would be in this case) and if a recall isn’t forthcoming soon, well, that will likely factor into my decision. I agree with your assessment, though that both companies are unlikely to take action on older units until/unless they absolutely must, and I have a real problem with that when it’s evident the previous fluid (and potentially the way the units were installed) is causing damage.
Edit to add: Welp. The one potential trouble spot I can reach (passenger side dinette cabinet) without dismantling cabinetry has a small but noticeable bulge in one hose. On a two year old unit that’s been used TWICE, for a sum total of about 7 days. Any further opinion I have can’t be adequately expressed in vocabulary suitable to this forum. Unfortunately other non trailer stuff that’s going disastrously wrong means this will be low priority for me at the moment, but obviously low usage is not protective in this case, and absolutely everyone should be checking their trailers.
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
2020 Subaru Outback XT
Pacific NW
I'm not sure there is a simpler solution out there. YMMV.
Maybe you already did, but did you post a source or name for your metal piping? I have spent more time than I think I should of searching and actually looking at the hardware store too and have not found those metal tubes. Any tips, maybe I just don't know what they are called. I did find #2 rubber stoppers with a hole at a home brewing supply place...
and a list of dealers in your region will opt up.
cheers
Per @gregndeb's design, the adapters are made from 3/8" OD rigid but bendable toilet water supply lines. I think these were common "back in the day" but have since been supplanted by flexible braided or plastic connectors. I found mine in the plumbing section at the orange big box (<$5 each), but they should be pretty common wherever plumbing supplies are sold.
The chrome is just for looks. The tubing is soft copper and can be bent easily by hand so long as you go slow and keeps the curves gentle to avoid kinking. You do need to cut off the flange at the top.
You want the stoppers to be reasonably tight so they don't easily slide up the tube when you insert them firmly into the expansion tank outlets. Mine were fine as I had drilled them myself to be a little snug. If the standard drilled stoppers slip too much, you might need to be creative in fashioning a stop of some sort, but frankly I doubt it will be a problem.
Here is the pump I used. I had to get a cig lighter adapter to power it from my socket in the 400. That part worked well and it had an on off switch which was convenient. It attached at the barb connection to 1/2 in ID vinyl tubing. I got a roll of 20 ft and cut it in half to make 2 10 ft sections so plenty of room to maneuver the fill and drain 5 gal buckets
First as @Horigan reported, I exposed the reservoir and the bathroom bleed screw. This is the only one on my 2019 400 and it is clearly at the high point of the loop. There is the auto bleed at the boiler as well but this would seem to do most of the work of getting air out of the convector loop. The two screws BTW are very close to the cover above so a full size screwdriver will not fit straight on.
I ended up removing the reservoir but next time I will not. The right side mounts are into plywood, the left are into the Azdel wall and repeated removal will strip them as they have nothing to hold to. Any inserts work for this?
At any rate I was worried my connections on the reservoir might be brittle so did not want to chance breaking them while twisting and pulling the hoses. A little silicone spray on the connections made it pretty easy to pull off the hoses without a lot of force or leverage once the clamps were moved down the hose out of the way. Next time I will leave it mounted and just pull off the hoses.
So @ScottG asked about the amount of glycol that will drain from the plug below the reservoir. I measured only about 1 gallon and about a pint more despite raising and lowering etc.
Now the inlet to the reservoir about retains about a 1/2 cup of glycol until you open the bath bleed screw. Then that drains and you can take off the hoses
The LEFT hose below is the return that @Horigan and others used to suck out remaining glycol. It is coming from the last convector in the loop, which in my 400 is the bathroom. Going backwards from there you should find a convector on the driver front round window, then under the dinette, then under passenger round window. On to kitchen convector and finally to behind bed under stargazer window . Each of these seems to be a pain to inspect for connections and corrosion without taking a lot of pieces apart. Any ideas of how to easily inspect without taking the trailer apart?
Here is the start of the tap water flush with the angle connectors from the vinyl in each hose (pump side is RIGHT hose). This was when I confirmed the flush was working as the old glycol is coming out the LEFT (return to reservoir) hose. These are 1/2 by 3/4 angle connectors for PEX. I enlarged the 3/4 side with duck tape till it was 21 mm and would fit snug in the hose and secured with the clamp shown. As mentioned I likely did not have to remove the reservoir to get to this point. No leaking and easy to put on and take off.
As others mentioned, if you are going to get a good rinse of the system it is going to take quite a few gallons. Here you see the first 5 gal on L and the second 5 gal on R. It was still pale yellow green by 3rd 5gal and finally clear by 4th 5 gal rinse. So if I were to change to the new fluid I would opt for a 20 gal flush if you pay a dealer to do it. Final rinse would be 4 gal distilled water. My little pump was slow and steady and each 5 gal took around 3-5 minutes. Sometimes the pump lost prime when switching buckets, but some fiddling with the hoses fixed it each time. It is not a strong pump and maybe that is good.
So it seemed to work and then I just used a clean 5 gal bucket and flushed with 4 gal of distilled water, followed by new Century glycol. I was not finding any problems in my connectors that I could see so for me the safest route was to use fresh Century glycol and let the world sort out this corrosion issue and new fluid recommendation over the next 2 years before I would do this again. Maybe Nucamp will get us DIY types a free 5 gal of the new fluid, along with the cleaner as a way to stave off corrosion and keep the loyal following happy and loyal!
The step by step procedure is attached and again thanks to @Horigan for the outline of the steps.
BTW I calculated the cost of this from scratch as 147.00. 100.00 of that was the Century glycol and the 47.00 was the connectors, tubing and pump which I will use next time.
I used the entire 4 gallons of Century I got from Amazon, and may have flushed more through than I needed to as I got a clear color change at 2 1/2 gal but I put in an extra gallon to be sure (3 1/2 gal total fill) before I removed the hoses and reattached the reservoir. That left me only 1/2 gal to burp the air out of the system and I had just enough!
Thanks again everyone and hope this helps someone else! Happy camping.
2019 T@B400 Boondock Lite "Todd"
For your filling Tee, I'm picturing a 3-way valve such as this..
.. which would allow either passthrough for normal use, or to interrupt the normal flow while opening the supply of new replacement fluid. See here..
Seems I would need to use your draining methods at first, to get the lines clear in order to hook up the valve, but then the valve would be useful for flushing with air pressure or distilled water & refilling.
Wondering if you're still considering the Tee approach & what you think of the valve. I figured stainless would be better than brass, but not sure if these fittings would even be compatible with the glycol.
And then there's the glycol versus the new stuff decision!
TV: 2005 Toyota Sienna LE (3.3L V6)
RV: 2018 T@B 320S, >100 mods
Thinking seriously of selling..
Ultimately, I learned slowly about Aldes through questions raised here. Maybe too little, too late. Regardless, if your dealer even knew about the glycol change requirement, I'd be darn surprised if they advertised it prior to the sale.
A T-port valve was among the first ideas I considered. Conceptually, I still think it is a very elegant solution, but I eventually abandoned it over (perhaps unwarranted) concerns about flow restriction, metals incompatibility, and getting it to fit properly in the odd 22mm hoses. Also cost, as the ones I found at the time were considerably more expensive than your example.
I eventually moved on to a simpler version using a basic tee fitting and judicious application of hose clamps. I had similar concerns about materials, flow, and fitment, so was leaning toward the installation of a second OEM Alde drain as a fill port. (The dual drain fitting suggested by @tybladesmith didn't come along until later, but the idea is the same.)
In the end I had two goals. One was to get my own glycol changed. The other was to devise and document the simplest possible process that would be accessible to the greatest number of owners. This would have to involve low cost, readily accessible parts, minimal technical skill, limited potential for spills, and no modification or dismantling of the existing system. Skilled tinkerers enjoy tinkering and will most always find a successful (and often elaborate) solution. Others, however, have little aptitude for or interest in the mechanical arts and just need to get the job done with minimal fuss.
For various reasons I'm sticking with (and working on documenting) the process I summarized on April 11. That said, I'd love to hear a report of the filling tee method--particularly one that incorporates that sexy T-port valve! :-)
The idea of keeping connections outside the trailer sounds good, but crawling underneath to make an inlet connection & then being isolated from the system & controls does not seem ideal.
I thought I might install the 3-way valve right there on the pump hose next to the system but closer to the drain, where all the other valves & drains are located. Then it would just be a matter of attaching an inlet hose with container of new fluid or flush water to the 3-way valve. This might require a detachable shutoff valve to easily remove the inlet hose without spills. Still thinking, but if the fittings are tight, this could work. I'm still wondering if the 3/4" barbed fitting with hose clamp is close enough to the hose's 22mm ID. I may need to get some of that hose to test. Where can I get some of that?
PS: How are people disposing of their old used glycol?
TV: 2005 Toyota Sienna LE (3.3L V6)
RV: 2018 T@B 320S, >100 mods
Thank you Scott. I have calmed down now.
2013 Toyota Highlander 3.5L V6
I've actually thought of using the valve you illustrated above but haven't gotten past the "mixing metals" issue. I was trying to get an aluminum ball valve shown in an Alde catalog to use for drain & refill purposes but I'm having a difficult time making replacement parts happen at the moment.
And for the "removing the inlet hose without spills" I thought of the quick release connections like I have on my tractor, they hold a lot of pressure (not that we need it there) and would make connections a "snap" 8^D But alas, again it's the "mixed metals" conundrum...
cheers
@ScottG or others, my T@b hoses were hooked up opposite of this picture, the bigger and lower drain were plumbed down to the Alde and the exit drain, and the flow into the tank from the radiator went in the higher smaller connection.
From this picture it looks like if you drain, you would still have water pooled in the tank at that lower point?
I wonder if it really matters as long as the tank is kept at the proper level? I don't want to go flip them around, but at this point I'm not sure who's installation is correct.
While the chemistry is a little out of my pay-grade, the question is of interest since by most general standards stainless and aluminum components should not be mixed, as the cathodic stainless can promote corrosion of the anodic aluminum.
I'm not sure how to get a definitive answer other than to dismantle the boiler and have a look for myself. :-)
2013 Toyota Highlander 3.5L V6
If anything my intuition tells me the outlet back to the Alde should be lower, as it may help reduce drawing air into the system in the event that the glycol in the tank gets low. Also--to your question--this configuration would facilitate more complete draining of the tank from the low point drain. Again, not sure it really matters from a normal operational standpoint.
Hmmmm, maybe all the rest of us have tanks that are hooked up backwards. ;-) @tybladesmith, you mentioned having an Alde installation manual? Does it provide any insight?
EDIT: Just found this in the 3010 installation manual. It suggests that the common configuration is correct, though the reasoning is still unclear. It might have to do with the fact that some installations have a circulator mounted in the reservoir. Just guessin'...