Alde Freight Train (Alde 3010 model)

DurangoTaB

@JohnDanielsCPA...Someone else posted a picture of that coroplast pulled back and it was awfully dirty as well.  I'm thinking I'll peek in there once a year to see how dusty it's gotten.  Like you we travel a LOT of dusty roads!  

Interesting comment from NuCamp...that the underbelly protector was installed to protect the tank level indicators.

Let us know how the new regulator works.  At least at 7,000ft our Alde now purrs...and doesn't emit black smoke (one of my concerns was about running the Alde so rich for so long, but probably less a problem with propane than with other fuels).

JohnDanielsCPA

I'm taking the T@B up to 6,300 feet this weekend.  I'll report back how it goes.

Tabaz

JD - I wouldn't be too concerned about sealing the underbelly.  (1) there are two huge openings behind each wheel in the frame and (2) any openings below the new regulator should provide venting of any dispelled propane.

gbell

I have been using the alde with the new regulator for about 5 days  at 7000+ ft now and it just purrs even less than purrs you hardly know it's on.

JohnDanielsCPA

@Tabaz , so you don't think there is a problem with the regulator getting covered with dirt?  If not, I won't worry about the coroplast, as that was my concern.

Tabaz

JD - (1) the factory specified this particular location, (2) there was very little dust in the lower "U" channel of the frame where I installed my new regulator (this after more than a year of boondocking in the dust-prone Southwest), (3) This location does not lend itself to water accumulation (i.e. no mud getting on the regulator).  So to answer your question, don't worry about the coroplast being completely sealed.  But for the annoying location for installation of the new regulator, it appears to be a great spot to keep debris away from the regulator.  As an aside, you have other things to worry about - like all those tax returns due 9/15/17.

JohnDanielsCPA

Good enough!  I'll focus on more important things!  Thanks!

JohnDanielsCPA

Alde ran at 6,500 feet with no problem - noise issue appears to be resolved.

blackoaktree

Just got back from a week at 9,500 feet. I realize the Alde needs the additional regulator. Is this something the Colorado dealer I bought this from should have installed? Or is this something I need to purchase? How do I get this part? Thanks for any info on how to resolve this.

ColoradoJon

So far the regulator is something you need to purchase and either install yourself or have your dealer install for you.  I have not heard anything about Nucamp providing these under warranty.  You can always check with the factory - contact numbers are available on this site.

blackoaktree

Thanks for the great write up.
sorry if this is duplicated in this thread but call NuCamp if you’re looking for the kit.

Pancho_n_Lefty

New owners of a 2018 boondock here and stoked!  We were at Rocky Mt. National Park up in Estes at elevation 8,500' last week and the freight train ocurred.  Loud enough to annoy.

This Nucamp fix, while effective, is a bit confounding as Alde has a part on their website for the 3010 and 3020 compact models to address this exact situation.

The Alde part number is 4115-101 and is the "Alde high altitude switch."  It is a valve that you turn to "position 2" when above 1,000m, and to "position 1" when below.

I contacted Alde yesterday to find out if I can purchase it stateside as Nucamp (via email) suggested their fix.

Link to part:
http://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_4115-101_instruct.pdf

What do y'all think?

Sharon_is_SAM

Is it possible that nuCamp wanted a “constant” fix rather than one that required flipping a switch?  Did you discuss the valve fix with nuCamp?

Pancho_n_Lefty

SAM said:

Is it possible that nuCamp wanted a “constant” fix rather than one that required flipping a switch?  Did you discuss the valve fix with nuCamp?

We sent an email to nuCamp asking what would be covered under warranty.  We asked about three options: this switch, their solution, & replacing the gas orifice for high altitude.

An orifice replacement would essentially do the same thing as their fix, but would require someone qualified to work on a boiler.  It makes sense that between these two choices, NuCamp would recommend the user replaceable (their) option of the regulator installation under the T@B.

They advised to the solution of installing another regulator as mentioned earlier in this thread and stated that none of the fixes are covered under warranty.

However, we cannot speculate as to why they wouldn't recommend the manufacturer approved solution.  (this solution only requires flipping the valve when crossing the 1000m altitude barrier.)  What this means is that if you are always above 1000m (3280ft) it stays in the same position and vice versa.

None of the options are covered  under warranty.  I saw the switch (Alde High Altitude Switch, part # 4115-101) for sale on a UK distributor website for 88 british pounds (about $122.28 US Dollars) before shipping, but they didn't ship to U.S.  Maybe it's a price thing?

The Alde High Altitude Switch essentially provides the same function the 3020 is promised to, but with the turn of a valve instead of the push of a button.

I don't know why they're not simply installing these valves with the boilers since the valve (high altitude switch) has been in existence since 2015 per the Alde publication time stamp of the high altitude switch as shown in the link above.

Sharon_is_SAM

We had the nuCamp high altitude fix placed at the factory and it was only about $60.  I remember that, at the time, the Alde 3020 was not yet approved for use in the US.  I wonder if that may have been a part of the issue with the valve availability?  Plus, that valve is twice the cost of the nuCamp fix.  NuCamp saved money by installing analog Alde control panels when digital were available.  Also, is it a matter of ease of plumbing access to add the valve?  The valve gets placed between the Regulator and the Alde - is it difficult to access that area on the clamshell vs the S model?  The nuCamp fix was also an alteration that owners can DIY, so maybe that was a factor?  I do like the fact that the nuCamp fix does not require me to change any settings!

Pancho_n_Lefty

SAM said:

We had the nuCamp high altitude fix[...]

These are all good and reasonable questions/observations.

The acquaintance who works on boilers stated that there isn't any issue really with the Nucamp fix as setting it for around 5,000' would allow it to burn well enough at sea level and high altitude without any major problems.

jbh

I recently ordered an Alde High Altitude Switch from the UK and had it shipped to me here in the US. Unknown to me at the time I ordered it, the switch is sized for 18mm compression fittings. Compression fittings are not recommended for LPG service in the US and 18 mm is a European tube size that's not common in the US. At high altitude, rotating the handle on the switch changes the internal orifice to a smaller size so that less LPG is delivered to the boiler. For both of the previously stated reasons I have chosen not to install the switch. I believe the same thing can be accomplished with a throttling valve. However, if anyone would like to purchase the switch from me, I'll make you a deal!  

CanyonTravelers

Sam, what actually did NuCamp do for $60?

CanyonTravelers

The switch to me sounds the way to go, interesting on the 18mm fittings.  My trailer is using a rubber hose to the Alde. I was just hoping to put the switch between the hose and Alde. Has anyone done the switch conversion and how did you do the connections.

Sharon_is_SAM

CanyonTravelers, actually it was $55.  Please see the May and June 2017 detailed posts regarding installation of the high altitude device that some of our forum members took on themselves.  NuCamp did the same thing.  

CanyonTravelers

Thanks Sam, actually I asking about the Alde 4115-101 switch/valve if anyone has done this.  I'm not sure I like the regulator under the trailer fix. I would rather change the pressure to the Alde when It needs it, instead of permanently lowering the pressure.

jbh

My previous post said the High Altitude Switch has18 mm fittings. That is incorrect. It is 8 mm ...... very close to 5/16 in.

Sharon_is_SAM

CanyonTravelers, These last few days is the first time the “switch” repair has been discussed.  No one on the forum has done the switch.  Multiple members now have the nuCamp fix.  

CanyonTravelers

Thanks Sam

sqrpeg

We just got back from our first beyond-the-driveway camp (finally!), and confirmed that our non-modified Alde 3010 has the freight train rumble at 6500 ft. It doesn't appear to occur (or at least isn't as noticeable) here at home, which is ~5400 ft.

@Pancho_n_Lefty - any progress regarding the valve ordered from the UK? Or is the 8mm/compression fitting issue as described by @jbh a deal-breaker?

LSkrabut

@sqrpeg - What is the build date of your 2018 320 S Boondock?

While I have not taken my 400 that high yet, I was told NuCamp implemented a work around for the known Alde (3010) issue of high elevation camping. Mine was built around 21 Nov 2017. I hope within the next few weeks to take it up to almost 10k for a check out.

sqrpeg

Oops, there are multiple threads on this issue and I described in another one that our Boondock's build date is 10/2017 - so we just missed out on nuCamp's transition to the newer Alde 3020 that has a high-elevation mode for the combustion fan. Is this what you're referring to?

Their approved workaround for existing 3010 owners is the "high altitude kit" which involves adding a second regulator for the Alde.  I'll probably go this route unless there's good news on the "UK valve alternative" mentioned above.

FYI - I'm in our T@B right now, and just noticed a short rumble, so maybe 5400' is near the threshold for our particular unit.

LSkrabut

I have been at 4725' and not heard it in our 400 yet. (in cold weather too, low 20's)

LSkrabut

FYI,

Just pulled the 400 up to 9800', 30 outside in the bright sun. No freight train noise from the Alde. 

We did hear the Alde pump turning on and off, but the fridge fan was much louder than the pump on the Alde. I did have the Alde turn on before we left the house. Drove 60 minutes to the top of Fairview Canyon without the Alde and gas turn on. Trailer got to 60 during the drive up, suspecting due to the bright sun. Once on top, I would say within 1 hour with the Alde on, inside temps got to 72, I did have the controller set to 86 to force max heat on gas only.  

The controller was set to 2 for the pump and the valve on the Alde itself was set to 2 also. Not knowing for sure which one wins, but guessing the valve would override the controller.

Pancho_n_Lefty

sqrpeg said:

@Pancho_n_Lefty - any progress regarding the valve ordered from the UK? Or is the 8mm/compression fitting issue as described by @jbh a deal-breaker?

jbh said:

Compression fittings are not recommended for LPG service in the US [. . .]

Sorry for the delay everyone.  When we ordered the Alde High Altitude Switch
on 02/08/2018 it wasn't in stock so it didn't ship until 2/28/2018 but it just arrived on 03/06/2018 which is a pretty impressive jog across the pond and half the continental U.S.!

As for the compression fittings... 

Our pipefitter friend confirmed that compression fittings are used often in LPG and other gas lines, especially in homes in the U.S..

Anecdotally, we did a quick google search and found some amateur speculation on the safety of compression fittings, but also a dizzying assortment of compression fittings for gas lines, including propane, many sold in the U.S.  Our personal musings on the fact that quick connects (just a washer and a collar) are readily available in the U.S. for use in the high pressure application directly from the propane tank make using these compression fittings in the lower pressure environement (post regulator) seem safe enough. 

Between our pipefitter friends approval, our google searching and the fact that the Alde High Altitude Switch is a solution recommended and designed by the manufacturer of the boiler for this specific application, we're comfortable with it.

The only negative we see is that the ferules used in these compression fittings are of a European style that you can't get in the U.S. (confirmed by our pipefitter friend).  Additionally, they are single use only, (You only get one shot to install it right).  So, if you don't get it installed properly the first time, you have to order new ferules from Europe (if you can identify them) or a new switch, which would be a very frustrating mistake.


On to the switch!

It's a pretty slick device that instantly changes the orifice size of the propane supply to the boiler.  Our pipefitter friend actually stated that this is a better solution than a variable speed fan (the fix on the new 3020's being installed in 12/2018 and younger T@bs).  We understand this may be subjective, but, it makes us feel good about buying a pre 12/2018 T@b.  So we're endorsing it.


Check it out!

Exploded View:



Assembled View:


Look at the difference in orifice sizing,

Low altitude (under 3280'):


High altitude (over 3280')

Observing the difference in orifice sizing recommended for high vs low altitude, it's easy to see why so much soot is visible at the exhaust port when the Alde is running at high altitude without it!

Installation location as copied from the 4415-101 Instruction Manual:



Tag attached to the switch:


And finally, the literature on the packaging:


So, that's it!  We expect to have our friend install the fitting by the end of this weekend.  We'll post an update aftwerwards.

Cheers!