Alde Freight Train (Alde 3010 model)

JohnDanielsCPA

@ColoradoJon, thanks so much for your time and effort documenting the regulator install.  I was somewhat hesitant to tackle this job, but now feel I just might be able to do it!

DurangoTaB

Per Marvin @ NuCamp the "kit" works well at all altitudes (just like the Norcold)...

DurangoTaB

@ColoradoJon...your PDF instructions were simply outstanding (and I've seen a LOT in my engineering career).  Nice work...

gbell

Thank you so much @ColoradoJon , I do believe with your awesome instructions and pictures, we Can do this ourselves.  I know without your pdf we sure could not.  Thank you for your diligence it really means a lot to us.

ColoradoJon

@atlasb - If it were me I wouldn't do it unless it is noisy.  If you do not plan on camping at high altitude you should not have any problems with the Alde.

Although the install is rather straightforward it is a real pain crawling around underneath.  It definitely helps to have someone else with you to hand you tools and hold the brackets in place while you mark out the install location.

ColoradoJon

Thanks for the kind words, everyone!  I've certainly learned a lot from everyone else here so it is time I paid it back!  Thanks @tabaz and @dsatwork for pioneering this install .

atlasb

Thanks for the thought Colorado-Jon.  Our 320 did not have Alde so it is going to be a new trip for us.  I wonder if the Pressure is reduced to 8wc from 10wc, which is what the new regulator does, why a competent propane dealer could not adjust the standard NU Camp regulator to 9WC and how that would work?  Any guess.  Seems that  10wc to 8 wc isn't that much of a change.

GrandmasKid

ColoradoJon said:

@atlasb - If it were me I wouldn't do it unless it is noisy.  If you do not plan on camping at high altitude you should not have any problems with the Alde.

Although the install is rather straightforward it is a real pain crawling around underneath.  It definitely helps to have someone else with you to hand you tools and hold the brackets in place while you mark out the install location.

Is there any harm in just putting up with a little noise when we're at altitude? I know there's some soot buildup at the exhaust but will that damage the unit? We don't have a garage and our gravel driveway is not at all comfortable to lay on. If I need the regulator installed I'll try to get my dealer to do it.

ColoradoJon

@atlasb - I cannot comment on the 400, but the 320 regulator should be set to 11wc.  I believe the high altitude regulator is set to 8wc and is non-adjustable.  You could reduce the main regulator pressure but then you may end up having problems running the Norcold fridge and the stove.  I believe there are some threads about too low propane pressure causing issues.

@GrandmasKid - if the noise doesn't bother you then there absolutely is no harm in putting up with it!  I've put up with it for the last year.  It is loud enough, though, especially on the exhaust side of the camper, that it can bother other campers in the camp sites next to you.  When I camped at Weston Pass (10,200 ft.) it was really loud and I was a bit embarrassed when the Alde fired up, and the campers next to me stared.  They didn't say anything, though

Michigan_Mike

ColoradoJon said:

Alright, I was able to get to finishing this now rather than tomorrow.  I'm attempting to attach this PDF file to this post.  I hope it works

Good stuff and will place this in the forum reference file so that others can find and use your work in the future.  Thanks for taking the time to assemble this Jon!  

atlasb

Hi Colorado Jon,  We saw our 400 last week and the Norcold is a 2 way. The dealer said really it runs off the battery and the power converter (battery again)  There is no current 3 way in the 400 that I am aware of.  It mounts over the wheel well. the only use of propane is the cook stove not sure how much problem is with less pressure for it.  We only used our stove in the 320 2 times since 2014.  Microwave, toaster oven or induction cook top.

ColoradoJon

@atlasb - ahh, well then yeah, probably not a big deal if you don't have the fridge!  I can't say how it would affect the stovetop...

jbh

Would someone please pass along the name and location of the dealer supplying the low pressure propane regulator to use to solve the Alde high altitude problem. 

Michigan_Mike

jbh said:

Would someone please pass along the name and location of the dealer supplying the low pressure propane regulator to use to solve the Alde high altitude problem. 

Your best bet is to contact Elsie Miller at the factory or ask to speak to Marvin Raber.  

HOURS OF OPERATION:

nuCamp RV: Mon-Fri 5:30am-3:30pm EST

Toll-Free Number: 844.823.9112
Phone:  (330) 852-4811

Parts 

Elsie Miller -  x304

parts@nucamprv.com

 

Warranty 

(Rachel, Ed, Marvin) x327

warranty@nucamprv.com

jbh

Many thanks for the nuCamp contact information. My problem is with an Airstream trailer.....apparently the same 3010 system and the same problem.

jbh

Question.....Has anyone tried installing a needle valve between the Alde regulator and the Alde unit to throttle the propane flow? It seems that would be an extremely easy fix that could be done at the unit itself rather than going through the hassle of routing another regulator outside. Eliminates the issue of the regulator possibly venting inside the trailer. Fire up the unit on propane with the needle valve wide open and slowly throttle back the propane until the vibration stops. At low altitude, open the valve back up.

Tabaz

After over a year of attempting to solve this problem, I believe this is the first someone has mentioned a needle valve.

dsatwork

i did quick search and didn't see anything that would allow you to dial it in to the correct inches per water column. Although if you could do the math right this might work. But you would have to know the pressure per square inch I think.  http://www.norgascontrols.com/sites/default/files/spec/SNI7352.pdf 
http://sciencing.com/convert-water-column-pounds-pressure-5666070.html

jbh

I don't believe you have to know the downstream pressure behind the needle valve. However, it will be a constant .5 psi on the upstream side. It seems you should be able to just slowly close the valve and throttle the flow to the boiler until the vibration stops and not worry about the pressure. Since the pressure will be constant on the upstream side of the valve, once set, the propane flow shouldn't vary. I believe the Alde unit has a 3/8" male flare connection. I've ordered a 3/8' flare needle valve and a 3/8" inverted flare union to join it to the Alde unit. It seems I should be able to just disconnect the existing supply line from the Alde, thread on the union and the needle valve and connect the supply line to the other side of the needle valve. My projects don't usually go nearly as fast or trouble free as I expect, but this shouldn't take long. I'm headed to Colorado next week so I should have a chance to give it a try. 

By the way, I've looked at a very small picture of the Alde "High Altitude Switch" that's available in the UK. It sure doesn't look like a pressure regulator. I believe it's just a small valve of some kind.

dsatwork

@jbh
I didn't experience the rattling until the temperature dropped in the middle of the night. Even at 5,000 when we got to camp and turned the Alde on so we would have hot water for dishes, there was no indication that there would be a problem. However, at 2AM when the temperature dropped, the Alde started rattling and rumbling. We had the thermostat set at 60 or 65. Since we normally don't heat at night, when we're sleeping, I just reached up and turned the Alde off at the panel. In my scenario, we would have to get out of bed and move the cushions and memory foam topper to adjust the needle valve. However, if you can produce the problem before you go to bed (which I don't think we could have that night) and have it adjusted, then sure it could work just fine. There have been discussion about when it happens in regards to the inside out temperature differential. Which may come into affect in the summertime, when temperatures can be very pleasant during the day and drop significantly at night. Which brings me back to, it would be nice to have it solved before you go to bed. Since propane sinks and doesn't rise, I don't think there is any issue with the add-on regulator under the Tab. It also, works just fine at sea level. My plan is to use it this way until it breaks and then replace with the Alde 3020 which is available online and there don't seem to be any restrictions about bringing it into the US. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALDE-Water-and-Central-Heating-boiler-for-Motorhomes-Boats-ROOF-FLUE-HE3020-/111825526031

atlasb

my understanding of the installation, you have to drop the belly panel to mount the new regulator.  when you replace the belly panel, is there some kind of vent to allow any trapped propane gas to escape?

dsatwork

atlasb said:

my understanding of the installation, you have to drop the belly panel to mount the new regulator.  when you replace the belly panel, is there some kind of vent to allow any trapped propane gas to escape?

There are big gaps in the axle (pretty much the low point) for the gas to escape.

atlasb

Ok,  Not to add any fuel to the fire,  am I missing something or is all the interest in reducing the gas flow, what about increasing the air intake.  Our 3 way in our 2013 Q M@XX had the high altitude kit and it included an extra air intake/ exhaust. would this not help reduce the issue?  (Our 2013 did not have the under belly pan like the newer units)

ColoradoJon

atlasb said:

Ok,  Not to add any fuel to the fire,  am I missing something or is all the interest in reducing the gas flow, what about increasing the air intake.  Our 3 way in our 2013 Q M@XX had the high altitude kit and it included an extra air intake/ exhaust. would this not help reduce the issue?  (Our 2013 did not have the under belly pan like the newer units)

Sure.  The issue is correcting the air/fuel mixture.  It is typically done be reducing the amount of fuel but increasing oxygen will work too, if you can find a reliable way to do it.

atlasb

colorado Jon,  do you see any problems mounting a 2nd regulator parallel to the main one in the propane tub.  Use a tee fitting to split the line and install gas valves before the regulators.  Use a 2nd tee fitting after the regulators to bring the line back to the original line to feed the stove and alde.  In theory by doing this if you were at altitude you could shut the valve for the original regulator and open for the 8wc regulator.  would you think this would be OK?

ColoradoJon

@atlasb - I'm no expert but that certainly sounds plausible!

atlasb

Thanks Jon. 

DaveC

There has been  considerable discussion about increased Alde noise at altitude.  Had no problem or noise at 5000 ft, but at Grand Teton, loud noise, (which I could have lived with) but neither the heater or hot water heater would work at all!  I have a new 2017 Outback.  Seems like a trailer sold in the West should work at 7000 ft. I plan on camping from 3000-7500 ft and I am not sure what regulator setting (if any) would work for this range.  Will talk to the dealer here in Boise tomorrow.


Have received input from TabberJohn and others.  High altitude performance seems to vary, but mine would not heat cabin or water at 7200 ft. 

Will explore nuCamp regulator, but would like to know if nuCamp kit invalidates the Alde warranty.

DurangoTaB

I had a disastrous experience with our local loco RV dealer installing the second valve, incompetence coupled with a faulty valve sent by NuCamp.  I finally got the second replacement and started the install today...BUT...I accidentally removed both ends of the existing 3/8" hose (the Alde end and the end that connects up to the manifold).  Good thing I did as I uncovered a crimped propane hose connection...caused either by LG/PV or the RV dealer...either way, it shouldn't be there.  Trying to find a 3-4ft, 3/8", low pressure, propane hose, with two female fittings ain't easy...I THINK I found a place out of Sedona, AZ, so hopefully the replacement will get here soon (soon is probably a week).

BTW to @ColoradoJon ... your directions were most helpful, however there are a number of nuance differences...how the hose is routed, my error in disconnecting the other end of the hose, needing an 18mm wrench (mine had 3/4" SAE) for the hose, etc., but overall most helpful (Marvin includes your instructions with the valve now).  Thanks again!

DurangoTaB

@DaveC... having dealt with Alde Sweden :-) and Alde Portland/Vancouver :-( I wouldn't worry about the warranty.  My guess is they, and NuCamp, will end up where they did with the Norcold 3way fridge...making the "high altitude" mod (or the the new Alde) standard on all new units, i.e. accepting the mod as best practice.