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Fridge Won't Light for Nothin :-(

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    FuzzyYanniFuzzyYanni Member Posts: 110
    haha a T@B University ! Good one !
    "I know one thing, I know nothing."
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    OutbackAZ, Ditto to all the great work you did on the "Fuses for Newbies"! Mike, thanks for posting at the top of the board, makes it much easier to find, and probably one of the more sought after posts
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Ok - Good luck on putting any kind of access port in - the burner box with the burner, ignighter and thermocouple are inside first an aluminum shield and then a solid box. You have to unscrew the shield and bend it down and then remove 6-8 screws to take the burner box off. Here's what that looks like...




    That gunk in the bottom off the box is sand/gravel kicked up thru the front vent.

    The good news is you can get both the ignighter and thermocouple out without digging into the box. For the ignightor you take the screw out next to the opening, rotate and pull it out. The Thermocouple just pulls out. It has grooves around it and there's a clip inside that grabs those grooves. Here's the Thermocouple...



    My ignighter looked like it was brand new.

    So, you may not have to open the box to replace the ignighter or thermocouple but good luck getting your hand/arm back in there. You "might" be able to do it if there was an access panel in the lower cabinet but I'm not 100% confident on that as you'd be getting at it sideways.

    Now the bad news - You probably won't find the thermocouple at your hardware store. The screw fitting on the end is a lot smaller than on bigger fridges or home furnaces...



    Second, the copper tubing is a foot longer than anything anybody had in stock. All the parts suppliers, even 250 miles away would have to order it. Here's what you need, I ordered from Amazon once we had the part number...



    I'll tell you what, it's a real pain in the butt working on that thing. The service guy pulled the fridge and we turned it on end to get easy access to the box that once opened we discovered how things fit, we wouldn't have had to actually open it. Glad we did just to clean it out though.
    Additionally, disconnected propane and both AC and DC electrical.

    Getting it back in isn't much of a problem but getting the in/out vents aligned and screwed back together is difficult (as Mike noted in his post).

    Hopefully Amazon delivers tomorrow and we can slide it out a bit, get the thermocouple slid in and everything hooked back up.

    I ordered a spare thermocouple because of the length but wether I could get it in without pullin the fridge again is still in question.
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    PXL, Did you get your fridge fixed, and what did they find if you did, thanks.
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Waiting on the part to come tomorrow - twas the thermocouple.
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    TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    edited October 2016

    If the thermocouple needs to be bent much inside the burner box to reach the pilot burner that is an odd design.
    But I'm only familiar with gas furnaces and water heaters where the pilot burner faces the thermocouple which mounts straight into its clip. 
    Perhaps the problem is the pilot burner isn't working properly or facing the thermocouple?

    Addendum: Didn't realize you had posted the repair visit notes above. Glad you got it solved. Sorry I recommended a universal thermocouple.

    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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    FuzzyYanniFuzzyYanni Member Posts: 110
    edited October 2016
    PXLated My Igniter isn't ticking and when I disconnect it from the circuit board I can tell the board is ticking properly. All my flow chart testing using the service manual point to a faulty igniter, my guess is it somehow grounded itself out to the orifice or another piece of metal in there. So... my question is you think it is possible to replace the thermocouple AND the igniter without removing the external aluminum shield?   Thanks for the pictures, I will save them for when I do my burner orifice cleaning.
    "I know one thing, I know nothing."
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    PXl, Might be a silly question, but is the whole end burnt off the thermocouple? If so, how did that happen? just a lot of use, or something else cause it?
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    FuzzyYanni - Didn't get a pic of the igniter inside the box but what you do is remove the screw you can see holding a little metal plate, pull the igniter out till it stops, twist it and pull it completely out. The end of it is "L" shaped, hence the twist. Mine looked brand new after two years. The thermocouple was burnt up bad though. In this previous pic you can see that little metal plate...


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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    edited October 2016
    Wow PXL, what an ordeal! I'm glad you got to clean it out as well. I was wondering what your adventures in the Dust Bowl had done, but the box seemed fairly well sealed. So the thermocouple is straight and the (oops) igniter is bent. Musta got em reversed in the instructions. I was more focused on getting that stupid little window + gasket back in the hole (the one to the right of the red arrow).  More wow about having to bend the shield to just get access to the burner box.

    Thanks for the pictures PXL!! 
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    FuzzyYanniFuzzyYanni Member Posts: 110
    edited October 2016
    I already created a PDF of fridge removal but here is a link as well, if you want more pictures. They remove the fridge from a EuroVan but the procedure is virtually identical. I made a PDF so I can store the file locally on my iPad when I need access without Wifi or Cellular coverage 
    http://1705.net/archives/329
    "I know one thing, I know nothing."
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    TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    PXLated said:

    I ordered a spare thermocouple because of the length but wether I could get it in without pullin the fridge again is still in question.

    Once you've got the new thermocouple installed I'd be curious to know if you can remove and install it without access to or disassembling the burner box.
    From the pic it looks like you can't or you'd have a hard time inserting it blindly into the correct position.  
    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited October 2016
    TabberJohn - I'm not risking pulling it out to find out :-)
    But, if you can reach back there, it goes straight in and the clip inside that grabs those grooves guides it straight. One thing I'm not sure of is how far in to push it. I suppose a good sum, try to light, if lights, stop, if not insert further :-)

    Edit-Add: In looking at the old on, there's a little lip on the end where the copper tube is so I think you push it in till it won't go any further. The scorched end is about a half inch long so maybe you have a little margin to play with.
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    irvingjirvingj Member Posts: 335
    PXL, sorry! I just saw this thread. Sorry I wasn't able to contribute earlier, but glad you were able to get it fixed! 

    Went through the same on my T2 T@B; suspected thermocouple --classic symptoms, same as yours-- got a new one, put it in, and still the same. I was able to reach into the burner box area and pull the thermocouple out. (Note that it's not a "wire" but a capillary tube.)

    Finally took mine to a service center, and what they found was that the thermocouple simply wasn't pushed in far enough. Ouch, expensive lesson! Apparently it was that way from the factory (DM), as original owner never once used the fridge on propane.

    New owner of my T@B now has a spare thermocouple --tested the original one (I almost never throw anything away), and it works fine. I could see that yours, however, was burned off on the end, which is normal with a lot of use. 

    Here's my burner box-- same set-up as others, and again, I was able to pull the thermocouple cap tube out by just tugging on it. With so much use, yours was kinda carboned-up in there, I suspect. Anyway, glad you got it fixed.
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    @Pxlated, did the service guy have any idea why your thermocouple was so burned up?
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    irvingjirvingj Member Posts: 335
    Photomom, if I'm not mistaken (I spent 12 years in HVAC, but not too much experience in the "heating" end of things), that's normal for a thermocouple  that gets a lot of use; they do eventually burn away.
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    PhotomomPhotomom Member Posts: 2,217
    irvingj said:
    Photomom, if I'm not mistaken (I spent 12 years in HVAC, but not too much experience in the "heating" end of things), that's normal for a thermocouple  that gets a lot of use; they do eventually burn away.
    That makes sense and I get the impression @PXLated uses his fridge on propane all the time.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    Photomom said:
    irvingj said:
    Photomom, if I'm not mistaken (I spent 12 years in HVAC, but not too much experience in the "heating" end of things), that's normal for a thermocouple  that gets a lot of use; they do eventually burn away.
    That makes sense and I get the impression @PXLated uses his fridge on propane all the time.
    What concerns me is that PXL is full-timing it and it seems that the frig isn't designed for this if the thermocouple burnt up within a year. The link that Fuzzy supplied talked about a van that was full-timed for 5 years. The burner was corroded and toast. I was just trying to calculate the weak links of going full-time and what the expenses for repairs would be - The Alde seems to be a better solution for hot water as the 6gal hot water heaters also use a burner and thermocouple system (although usually with access panels). Just a few thoughts before coffee. Forgive the rambling!
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Photomom - On propane 90% of the time. Service guy didn't seem too surprised that it was toast for as much as I use it.
    Ratkity - Full-time two years, just starting three. 
    irvingj - Not fixed yet, waiting on the part - should be here today.
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    PXL, Enjoy your coffee, and best of luck for the rest of the day!
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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    irvingjirvingj Member Posts: 335
    One other thing you might have your service person check: is the pilot light/burner operating properly?

    Sometimes an "early" thermocouple death can be traced to a pilot that's running poorly.  Just a thought, from what little I remember about the heating end of things; I generally shied away from that stuff, especially propane. I left that to "the other guys" and stuck with refrigeration, thank you very much! (I'd much prefer to work with 460/3-phase than mess with explosive stuff!)
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited October 2016
    Sitting in a full hookup RV park where the service guy is. Fridge running on AC. Typical park, drive thrus and no more than ten feet between rigs. Not used to such tight quarters. Not my idea of a good time. Can't wait to flee :-)
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    HI-ho Silver Away!
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    And typical of what I've heard - The camp wifi sucks. So slow that I switched back to my data connection.
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    PXLated said:
    Photomom - On propane 90% of the time. Service guy didn't seem too surprised that it was toast for as much as I use it.
    Ratkity - Full-time two years, just starting three. 
    irvingj - Not fixed yet, waiting on the part - should be here today.
    Whoa! Time flies, PXL!! Starting on 3 yrs. Hope your frig is fixed soon and you are on your way. I heard record high temps are hanging around in some states for October. Stay cool :)

    I so agree, packed in like sardines is not my idea of fun. The state parks on the Delmar peninsula (Delaware, MD) that our camping group picks have so much space between sites and lots of room in a site for people around a fire - I love that. Electric only hookups (limited amount available). No water except designated faucets (closed in the winter most of the time) and clean bathhouses. 
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    FuzzyYanniFuzzyYanni Member Posts: 110
    Yuk on the RV park :(
    "I know one thing, I know nothing."
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    TabberJohnTabberJohn Member Posts: 588
    Ratkity said:
    What concerns me is that PXL is full-timing it and it seems that the frig isn't designed for this if the thermocouple burnt up within a year.
    It's probably a case where 95% on propane wears out the TC a lot faster than typical use split between propane, shore power, and TV.
    Also, if any sand/moisture got kicked up into the pilot burner the flame wouldn't have been running clean and that would cause faster carbon build-up and corrosion.
    2015 T@B Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited October 2016
    What I don't understand is how those bits of gravel could even get in there. There's the big, protruding outer housing you see and then another round disc under that. And they're not exactly sitting down where stuff is kicked up by the tires.
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    PXLated - thanks for sharing this adventure.  We all learned a lot from it.  Photos really helped understand the intricacies. 
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    ericnlizericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    OutbackAz, couldn't agree more, especially if it helps other folks as well! Thanks PXL! :)
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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