T@B 400 2019 Tongue Weight

BigGrover · March 2019

Check out local scrap metal businesses, they have smaller scales.

N7SHG_Ham · March 2019

@jgram2 yes scales are checked, what I am saying is they are more accurate mid range + I know in Oregon the DOT scales only read to nearest 50 pounds, unsure if that is true on the CAT scales. As an example, the scales you can buy for weighing your tongue weight have two different ranges and while you could weigh with the higher rated one, they recommend using the one mid range for your trailer, more accurate that way.

N7SHG_Ham · March 2019

@Awca12a thanks for the link, I have previously read the same and I think a CAT is sufficient for getting a decent idea of RV weights. I guess my post a few above was meant to point out the commercial scales don't have resolution and likely accuracy to the pound, therefore your comment about adding the heavy chain as an experiment may be inconclusive with a commercial scale. Likewise a Tabber trying to verify much less than 20-50 pounds of tongue weight on a commercial scale is likely also going to be inconclusive. If you are close to maximum hitch weight for your TV, I think the dedicated tongue scale will be best tool to use.

Awca12a · March 2019

Good points.

PamandJohnUpNorth2 · March 2019

I am curious to learn more about this, and what if anything can be done to lighten the tongue weight significantly. I have yet to weigh out as my 400 is still in storage but bought a new tow vehicle last year with 5000# Capacity/500# tongue weight based on the 325# tongue weight as published Fall 2017 brochure. I felt comfortable with the TV and trailer at the time because there was a fair amount of leeway between 325# and maximum capacity of 500# . I don't like maxing out vehicle capacity - I prefer a "safety margin" of tongue weight and total payload. Now we are seeing weights published as 460# !!! I would be interested if NuCamp has any ideas, other than loading, of what could be done to lighten the tongue. For me, going with a different TV at this point isn't an option The only thing that I can think of would be to move the weight of the batteries ( back from the front of the underbed area a couple feet back) to the (backmost part of the) rear of the underbed area. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread! (Edited 04/09/2019 to try to add more clarity to the comment)

[Deleted User] · March 2019

So your batteries must still be up front in the propane box.....they now come in the back under the bed, so for sure you could move them unless your model is built differently under the bed than the 2019's I've seen. Just make sure they are not the kind that give off toxic gas....I'm not an expert on that, but I'd do some research to make sure.

Is your spare mounted up front under the tongue? Moving that under the bed (if you have room with the batteries) The tire weighs 38 pounds according to NuCamp. If you do move the tire, you can also remove the mounting bar on the tongue. You can also get a "Jack-E-Up" device that allows you to remove the jack once you are hooked to your tow vehicle....I posted all of this before somewhere earlier in this thread or it might have been the weight distribution hitch thread. Just be sure to put the jack forward of your rear axle in your TV otherwise taking it off isn't doing much to help your tongue weight. If it really came down to you needing/wanting to take more weight off the tongue, and depending on how much propane you use, you could switch out the 20# (about 37 pounds) one for an 11# tank (about 26 pounds). You can also make or buy some sort of lighter weight dinette table. One last tip would be to travel with some water in your fresh water tank to act as a counter balance, but be careful of exceeding the recommended ratios of 40% of your weight in the rear and 60% in the front....how you know these weights to any accuracy is beyond my comprehension, but this is what is recommended.

Also, are you using a weight distribution hitch? You might look into that. There is an EXTENSIVE thread discussion on this recently. I will find it and post it here.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6219/tab-400-weight-distribution-hitch-not-recommended-due-to-c-channel-construction#latest

BigGrover · March 2019

@Robyn769 the 400's all have the batteries under the bed in the rear. The issue is bottomline, the tongue weights are coming in higher on the BD lites than the regular 400. @PamandJohnUpNorth2 I suggest you buy a tongue weight scale (about $50) and weigh yours. My 2018 400 (not a BD Lite) had a tongue weight 50 lbs lighter than my 2019 400 BD Lite.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Interesting....I didn't realize it was mainly the BD models that were showing the heavier weights.

BigGrover · March 2019

I can't say for sure that it's just the BD models but that's what Awca12a and I are dealing with.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Got it.

Awca12a · March 2019

We ran the trailer over the CAT scales to get the equivalent of a second opinion for tongue weight. These scales are rated to have a 20# variation either way and are calibrated for DOT use. Using their APP, we received two images shown below and from this data, I concluded that the weight was 460# as follows:

1) Nothing in any of the holding tanks.
2) Empty refrigerator
3) Empty bathroom
4) One propane tank that was 3/4 full.
5) Basic kitchen utensil items in the drawer and below the sink.
6) Bed made with foam topper.
7) Bourbon where it belongs behind the driver side seat cushion.
8) We have a 2nd propane tank holder installed in the tub along with a wire shelf enclosing the large opening behind the tanks. Both of these items weighs a total of 7-lbs although that doesn't translate directly into additional tongue weight.

At some point this week I'll replicate the weight done on the tongue scale making no change to the trailer so we can see a comparison of the CAT figures and the scale.

A comment was made in this thread regarding a Weight Distribution Hitch and there may be some confusion as to whether or not a WD hitch can lighten the tongue weight. The link below takes you to Etrailer where they explain why tongue weight doesn't get lightened by the use of a WD hitch. The short version is that a WD hitch moves weight from the rear of the TV back onto the front of the TV and onto the trailer axle but doesn't change the amount of downward force on the hitch. https://www.etrailer.com/question-78445.html

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/6e/93hpsbrq5ohr.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/o2/h2frlw7e6r2j.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/x7/udjusvqc7734.jpg

BigGrover · March 2019

As I see it your loaded but dry trailer weighed 3,280 lbs.so TW of 460lbs comes in at 14% of the trailer weight which is within the recommended percentages. If it were a TW of 490lbs it would be 15%, also within the recommended %

Awca12a · March 2019

@BigGrover Agreed. In case anyone wonders how you got there ....

Awca12a · March 2019

These pages from the Unofficial Guide might be of help to someone reading this.

PamandJohnUpNorth2 · March 2019

@Awca12a OMG the information on the CAT scales (and the other documentation you have shared with us) is helpful beyond words!!! Since I have a CAT scale 2.5 miles down the road I will head there when I get the trailer ready to roll later this spring and then I'll know where I am on capacities. @BigGrover thanks for the clarifications and @robyn769 thanks for the ideas to keep things light. This forum is awesome.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Very helpful info.

Blueespy · April 2019

Picking up our new 400 BD next week - an upgrade from our 320 CS-S. Our TV is a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 with a towing capacity of 6200#. When we ordered our 400, we were told due to tongue weight issues the aluminum platform was not available. Reading this forum I now see why. So, if someone could make sense of all this; first will our Grand Cherokee pull our 400 BD (I'm assuming yes) and second if we have a stocked trailer (water tank, full propane, and stocked kitchen) what additional weight would we put on the tongue? I'm thinking two 50caliber ammo boxes to just hold things like our gray water hose and a few other odds and ends. Welcome any thoughts/suggestions.

Blueespy · April 2019

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

[Deleted User] · April 2019

Are the ammo boxes metal? If so way too much excess weight just for the box. I just use a canvas duffle bag for hoses and odds and ends. The full water tank actually will counter balance some of the weight off of the tongue, but be careful not to overload the rear end either. You should have 40% of your weight in the rear of the camper and 60% up front....how you actually can determine this ratio I have no idea though.

Blueespy · April 2019

robyn769 said:

"Are the ammo boxes metal? If so way too much excess weight just for the box. I just use a canvas duffle bag for hoses and odds and ends. The full water tank actually will counter balance some of the weight off of the tongue, but be careful not to overload the rear end either. You should have 40% of your weight in the rear of the camper and 60% up front....how you actually can determine this ratio I have no idea though." The ammo cans are metal so they'll be a no go. I do have a small tubberware box that is light weight that could probably hold everything I need for it to hold. I wanted something that would also protect the contents from rain etc. I normally wouldn't travel with the water tank full knowing I'm not headed to a boondock site.

Awca12a · April 2019

Blueespy said:

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

Easy enough to check for yourself without using the 10% rule. Look under the rear of the vehicle and you will see a sticker on the hitch bar itself. It will have a note saying WEIGHT CARRYING along with MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT and MAX TONGUE WEIGHT or something to that effect. It may very well have a second line below WEIGHT CARRYING that says WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING. The sticker will clearly state how much tongue weight you can have in standard weight carrying mode and how much more it can carry with a WD hitch.

Blueespy · April 2019

Not sure if this question fits this forum - it regards towing. Currently I use a Curt Friction Sway Control for Weight Distribution Systems. I recently engaged etrailer on the topic of towing and this is their response:

The general rule of thumb is that if the actual weight of the trailer is more than 50% of the vehicle's actual weight then a weight distribution system is recommended. According to my research, your 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk will weigh between 4,500 to 5,000 lbs and your trailer when fully loaded will likely be near half of this weight so I do recommend you use a weight distribution system. Also, the built-in sway control on a weight distribution system is generally much more effective than that of an independent sway control bar like the Curt Friction Sway Control for Weight Distribution Systems part # 17200 which requires drilling into the trailer frame as well.

For a weight distribution system with built-in sway control, I recommend the Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution System w/ 4-Point Sway Control part # EQ37060ET. The Equal-i-zer system is highly reviewed, easy to use once setup properly, and comes with a lifetime warranty. It is also the only system on the market with a forged head and it is made right here in the USA.

I'm thinking a $600 plus Equal-i-zer WDS w/4-point sway control to be a bit overkill. Can anyone share their knowledge on pulling a 400 BD and using a sway bar/control?

Blueespy · April 2019

Awca12a said:

Blueespy said:

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

Easy enough to check for yourself without using the 10% rule. Look under the rear of the vehicle and you will see a sticker on the hitch bar itself. It will have a note saying WEIGHT CARRYING along with MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT and MAX TONGUE WEIGHT or something to that effect. It may very well have a second line below WEIGHT CARRYING that says WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING. The sticker will clearly state how much tongue weight you can have in standard weight carrying mode and how much more it can carry with a WD hitch.

Just checked - factory installed tow package and no stickers anywhere. I'm going to browse through the owner's 'manual next.

Sharon_is_SAM · April 2019

@Blueespy, you may be better posting these comments over on the discussion titled:

Best Weight Distribution hitch for TaB 400. See link.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8289/best-weight-distribution-hitch-for-t-b-400

Awca12a · April 2019

I would also read everything in this posting regarding WD on a 400 and the factory response.
IF anyone is interested, I have an Equalizer 600# with the BAL link adapters for "C" channel that I'm happy to sell at 50% off. Will even throw-in the spacer for under the tub that is needed to lift it for the WD support.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6219/tab-400-weight-distribution-hitch-not-recommended-due-to-c-channel-construction

BigGrover · April 2019

@BlueespybI have used the dame rig Awca12 is selling on a large Aframe 2500 lbs dry that I pulled with a Ford Ranger and it worked. great. the manual was easy to follow for setting it up. Thats a great deal

Blueespy · April 2019

Awca12a said:

Blueespy said:

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

Easy enough to check for yourself without using the 10% rule. Look under the rear of the vehicle and you will see a sticker on the hitch bar itself. It will have a note saying WEIGHT CARRYING along with MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT and MAX TONGUE WEIGHT or something to that effect. It may very well have a second line below WEIGHT CARRYING that says WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING. The sticker will clearly state how much tongue weight you can have in standard weight carrying mode and how much more it can carry with a WD hitch.

Just checked - factory installed tow package and no stickers anywhere. I'm going to browse through the owner's 'manual next.

JEB · April 2019

Blueespy said:

Awca12a said:

Blueespy said:

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

Easy enough to check for yourself without using the 10% rule. Look under the rear of the vehicle and you will see a sticker on the hitch bar itself. It will have a note saying WEIGHT CARRYING along with MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT and MAX TONGUE WEIGHT or something to that effect. It may very well have a second line below WEIGHT CARRYING that says WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING. The sticker will clearly state how much tongue weight you can have in standard weight carrying mode and how much more it can carry with a WD hitch.

Just checked - factory installed tow package and no stickers anywhere. I'm going to browse through the owner's 'manual next.

That's where you ought to start, and arguably finish. I have a 2014 JGC and the owner's manual covers this topic. Mine says that a weight distribution hitch is required for gross trailer weights of 3500 pounds or more. I suspect yours says the same since both your JGC and mine are model WK2, which started with MY 2011.

Blueespy · April 2019

JEB said:

Blueespy said:

Awca12a said:

Blueespy said:

Just came across this posted on the etrailer.com website: "Unless otherwise noted your tongue weight capacity would be 450 lbs as the tongue weight capacity for a vehicle is almost always 10 percent of the total trailer weight it can tow". If this is true, then for my jeep with a towing capacity of 6200#, my allowable tongue weight capacity would be close to 600#.

Easy enough to check for yourself without using the 10% rule. Look under the rear of the vehicle and you will see a sticker on the hitch bar itself. It will have a note saying WEIGHT CARRYING along with MAX GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT and MAX TONGUE WEIGHT or something to that effect. It may very well have a second line below WEIGHT CARRYING that says WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING. The sticker will clearly state how much tongue weight you can have in standard weight carrying mode and how much more it can carry with a WD hitch.

Just checked - factory installed tow package and no stickers anywhere. I'm going to browse through the owner's 'manual next.

That's where you ought to start, and arguably finish. I have a 2014 JGC and the owner's manual covers this topic. Mine says that a weight distribution hitch is required for gross trailer weights of 3500 pounds or more. I suspect yours says the same since both your JGC and mine are model WK2, which started with MY 2011.

Max Tongue Weight for mine is about 600lbs. Mixed comments on the towing forum with regards to using a WDH. I read somewhere that the factory does not recommend using one. I do have a sway bar so I'm thinking I'll stick with the factory setup for now and see how it goes. We have several short trips planned to check out the trailer etc. before our long multi-month adventure. We upgraded to the 400 BD from a 320 CS-S and it came down to needing a separate sleeping /eating arrangement and a large bathroom. Having the Walker Tent with the 320 was nice; except when having to either set it up or take it down in the rain.

RCB · April 2019

New 2019 400 just home from the dealer and empty - tongue measured wt 400 lb.

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