Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

tepe50 · July 2020

That's good news hopefully it will be enough when you get site that is in full sun.

crohrbacher · July 2020

@AirBoss I have been "put on the list" by nuCamp warranty to get my Air8 unit replaced a few months ago. I also inquired about the scoop the other day, and have not heard back yet about either request. I guess these things just take time.

1968Healey · July 2020

Do we need to apply to be put on a list to have the Air8 unit upgraded? Overall I haven't made much of a fuss to nuCamp about this because I see the updates on these forums. However that will change if they’re not planning to blanket replace all Air8 units.

AirBoss · July 2020

Yes. Contact nuCamp Warranty folks to get on the list.

johnfconway · July 2020

AirBoss said:

A small fan (compact Vornado was my choice) pointed at the ceiling helps keep the warmer air circulating back down toward the return air inlet. https://www.vornado.com/shop/circulators-fans/5303-small-air-circulator

Once again thank you for all of the useful information regarding upgrade!

Since A/C is pretty much shore power or generator only, is your Vornado 5303 110V? I noticed they have a pricier 5303DC that looks like it plugs into a 110V outlet, but must convert power to 12V. Air moving capacity looks about the same with less power consumed.

Does anyone have experience with this version of 5303?

https://www.amazon.com/Vornado-5303DC-Circulator-Variable-Control/dp/B014V3UK5G?th=1

HBarry · July 2020

AirBoss, in your description of your upgrade you spoke about rerouting and shortening the ducting from the AC. If you can share I'm curious about the details of that? Seems like with the location of the AC fixed and the locations of the vent outlets in the 400 also fixed there wouldn't be a heck of a lot of rerouting and shortening that could be accomplished. One additional thing that might be helpful is if the routing of the ducting didn't result in some of the ducting being squeezed (ie crushed) particularly at the 90 degree turn coming out of the AC and at the point where the ducting enters into and departs from the Alde compartment.

Thanks for anything you can offer!

AirBoss · July 2020

@crohrbacher
I suspect they worked on mine as they are making their way around the country, in different climates, and they happened to be in SoCal. Think initially they're selecting a few here and there and asking for feedback to ensure it's working as anticipated before they roll it out. Dunno...

@johnfconway
Yes, 110V only. I'll be swaping our the Fantastic Fan, putting it in the head, and installing a MaxxAir Deluxe in the living area which should offer more than enough circulation.

@HBarry
Yes. Elwell folks said their studies have found excess, looped, or obviously angled ducting takes away from the cooling effects. I suspect each rig may be a bit different in how the ducting was routed but they did remove approx. 3-5 feet of ducting from all three runs. I did not notice any crushing of the ducting...just that it appeared that a length of ducting was cut for each run and if it was too long, it wasn't trimmed, just looped or rerouted.

TNOutback · July 2020

AirBoss said:

I don't have a infrared temp gauge but I can say it was obvious (and as mentioned by Elwell folks) that the factory solar on the roof does transfer a fair amount hear thru the roof. Just by touch I can feel the delta between that areas of the ceiling and other areas. Thus, the fan.

@Airboss I borrowed an infrared temp gauge from a friend and took some measurements today. Now, its important to realize the gauge is not that accurate (it says my body temp at forehead is 88), but the relative difference between temperatures would be informative. My T@B 400 is silver, so this is measuring the silver roof compared to the solar panel on the exterior, and the interior ceiling directly below the panel, and the ceiling up front by the dinette. Again, exact temp not the point, but differential is. These measurements were with the sun directly overhead. The Air8 has been running for 3.5 hours at this point.

Exterior:
Silver roof: 135.3 degrees
Solar Panel: 150.1 degrees

Interior:
Cabin ceiling over front dinette: 81.2 degrees
Cabin ceiling underneath solar panel: 91.3 degrees
Closet ceiling underneath solar panel: 104.8 degrees

I measured the closet ceiling since there is no a/c flow in the closet (cabin ceiling in the bathroom was same as the closet). I could not find a comparative place up front that wasn’t in the main cabin to compare to the closet’s dead air space.

@AirBoss confirms your “hand temperature gauge” that the solar panels contribute to the heat gain in the cabin. I suspect that a white exterior would should lower temps compared to the silver, and likely an even starker contrast to the solar panel inside and out.

AirBoss · July 2020

@TNOutback
Good work, sir. As you say, it's the delta that is critical, not necessarily the numbers themselves as they are all relative. Fairly significant delta's. While I appreciate the asthetics of the exterior color pallet, functionality and comfort should rule the day. A transition from silver to white just above the stargazer window, then back to silver just above the front window would be helpful.

I've not had a chance yet to condcut another field test and likely won't until mid-Aug when I head to Paso Robles wine country for the week. Temps in hi 80's low 90's. Pretty confident that the new unit will keep us comfortable.

Wish you luck this week and say hello to Josh!

grsiepka · July 2020

1968Healey said:

Do we need to apply to be put on a list to have the Air8 unit upgraded? Overall I haven't made much of a fuss to nuCamp about this because I see the updates on these forums. However that will change if they’re not planning to blanket replace all Air8 units.

Please make a fuss. I reached out to my dealer here and while they have had similar complaints from other owners, there was nothing they could do about it. I gave them the info from this thread and they were surprised to that they've heard nothing from NuCamp about it and are reaching out to them now.

One thing I'm not sure of from reading this. Should I be contacting Nucamp directly or should that come from the dealer first?

Verna · July 2020

Dealer dealer first, then to warranty@nucamprv.com (it’s on the first page of this discussion, in the first post).

TabberJohn · July 2020

Sounds like the resolution is on its way, but if nuCamp really wants to put this issue to bed in a future model of the 400 here are the specs --

1. White roof only
2. Elevated "tropical roof" panel(s) cover most of the roof from above front window over top to sides of star-gazer window; cut-outs as necessary for fan and vent pipes
3. Solar panels mount on the raised roof panel
4. Insulate the roof struts (I believe there's an infrared image posted that shows there's a big difference)

Result --
T@B roof temperature will remain close to ambient temp; never dozens of degrees above it.
That will make a HUGE difference in cooling requirements regardless of where you camp.
nuCamp can introduce the 400 Boondock SE (Safari Edition).

Then they can honestly claim "Ready for your next adventure in the full sun".
I'll bet desert boondocking without AC is also more practical as long as the humidity is low enough.
At any rate generating a reasonable delta within X minutes won't be a problem since you won't be fighting a heater on the roof.

RFraer · July 2020

grsiepka said:

1968Healey said:

Do we need to apply to be put on a list to have the Air8 unit upgraded? Overall I haven't made much of a fuss to nuCamp about this because I see the updates on these forums. However that will change if they’re not planning to blanket replace all Air8 units.

Please make a fuss. I reached out to my dealer here and while they have had similar complaints from other owners, there was nothing they could do about it. I gave them the info from this thread and they were surprised to that they've heard nothing from NuCamp about it and are reaching out to them now.

One thing I'm not sure of from reading this. Should I be contacting Nucamp directly or should that come from the dealer first?

I contacted NuCamp Warranty directly.

grsiepka · July 2020

Verna said:

Dealer dealer first, then to warranty@nucamprv.com (it’s on the first page of this discussion, in the first post).

Thanks. I saw that part but wasn't sure if dealer was supposed to make that email.

Verna · July 2020

grsiepka said:

Verna said:

Dealer dealer first, then to warranty@nucamprv.com (it’s on the first page of this discussion, in the first post).

Thanks. I saw that part but wasn't sure if dealer was supposed to make that email.

If it were me with as important as this is, I would want to make sure the email got to the warranty department, and I would take care of it myself. You can always CC the dealership on your email.

TNOutback · July 2020

X2 what @Verna said. All my email communications on warranty issues are to the dealer and the fine NuCamp warranty folks.

@grsiepka your dealer saying “there’s nothing they can do” is hogwash. They can check into your concerns by reaching out to their NuCamp sales rep for guidance, or their service department can file a warranty claim for you.

jkjenn · July 2020

Above 90 degrees today, with little to no shade. Elwell has kept the 320 below 75 degrees.

SweetlyHome · July 2020

We sent our request to be on the AC fix list to our dealer with a copy to Nücamp warranty. First response was from Nücamp to the dealer requesting confirmation of purchase (VIN number). Dealer responded in an appropriate period of time. Seems like the way to go.

simonseyz · July 2020

Roof, silver or white..... no difference!....it's only 1 inch thick and hardly any insulation!
Plus aluminum transfers heat easily!.... Maybe fiberglass roof and more insulation would help?

AirBoss · July 2020

I believe it would make some difference, especially if it contained soalr reflective additives (but then the price goes up). That said, I'll trade the temp factor over the fact the Azdel is essentially immune to mildew, rot, delamination, off-gassing, and half the weight of wood.

twocutes · July 2020

For the dealer/nuCamp Warranty contact topic --
I have a 320, so the Air8 seems to cool effectively, but I'm not keen on the noise while cooling or dehumidifying. Noise seems disproportional to size of camper. Anyway, I do want to install the deflector/scoop on the underside of the T@B to help deflect noise to driver side.
I first emailed my dealer and explained what/why I was looking for with a photo. I was told to contact nuCamp Warranty directly. That's just my experience.

jkjenn · July 2020

twocutes said:

For the dealer/nuCamp Warranty contact topic --
I have a 320, so the Air8 seems to cool effectively, but I'm not keen on the noise while cooling or dehumidifying. Noise seems disproportional to size of camper. Anyway, I do want to install the deflector/scoop on the underside of the T@B to help deflect noise to driver side.
I first emailed my dealer and explained what/why I was looking for with a photo. I was told to contact nuCamp Warranty directly. That's just my experience.

Any AC in a camper this small will be loud. The Elwell actually seems a little quieter to me than the older window style AC. Another T@b owner who has an older model commented that it is much quieter than the Coolcat in his 320.

twocutes · July 2020

@jkjenn
I respectfully disagree on the noise and believe it is dependent upon year and A/C unit. I had a 2014 T@B 320 CSS with a Frigidaire window A/C. It was not quiet, but it was installed at the top of the driver's side, so it did not interfere with the camping area with regard to noise pollution. The Air8 air output is at the back of my 2020 T@B 320 CSS and every single person at the campsite has commented about how loud it is. It's all about placement. That's why I want nuCamp Warranty department to send me the deflector, so I can install and deflect air/noise to driver's side and not the back, where I and others cook and spend time.

TNOutback · July 2020

Google “Truma sound muffler” and you’ll find a solution to the interior noise. Not sure how you get one in the States though.

simonseyz · July 2020

@AirBoss
There is no Azdel on the roof. It's a aluminum skin on aluminum frame.

AirBoss · July 2020

@simonseyz
I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

TabberJohn · July 2020

simonseyz said:
There is no Azdel on the roof. It's a aluminum skin on aluminum frame.

You sure about that? I believe there are photos posted somewhere showing construction that confirms this description:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/128284#Comment_128284
(aluminum skin + Azdel + foam with aluminum struts)

grsiepka · July 2020

TabberJohn said:

simonseyz said:
There is no Azdel on the roof. It's a aluminum skin on aluminum frame.

You sure about that? I believe there are photos posted somewhere showing construction that confirms this description:
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/128284#Comment_128284

Pretty sure that's correct. I removed the center upper running light and replaced it with a backup camera. Had to drill holes in the skin to mount it. It's definitely aluminum up there.

TabberJohn · July 2020

grsiepka said:

Pretty sure that's correct. I removed the center upper running light and replaced it with a backup camera. Had to drill holes in the skin to mount it. It's definitely aluminum up there.

Weren't there multiple layers you had to drill through besides the outer aluminum skin?

Sharon_is_SAM · July 2020

I looked at an old post of mine regarding the TaB ceilings. Creed said they were 1/8” ply covered by a vinyl paper. Here you can see the ply and I don’t think that is Azdel.

Then, from the outside it is a thin aluminum sheet over the foam sandwiched by the aluminum grid, then ply, then paper.

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Official statement from Scott Hubble concerning the Air8 air conditioner

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