Alde Freight Train (Alde 3010 model)

DurangoTaB

I have several emails from Scott last May; haven't heard anything since.  I was waiting until then to do anything (kit, detailed specs, etc)

Tabaz

NuCamp/Alde and the company that supplies the propane regulators can't come up with a fix to this problem. Perhaps there are legal issues involved. Regardless, It appears that the factory regulator is set for 10 WC while Alde says it should be at 8 WC for higher altitudes. The stove and frig work fine at higher altitudes with the stock 10WC regulator. Seems that a new dedicated propane hose needs to be added to provide for a 8 WC hose to the Alde. If you have any photos of the propane line after the regulator, please post them. Otherwise I need to remove that plastic undercarriage cover and look for myself. ANY help here would be greatly appreciated.

DurangoTaB

Since Alde defines"higher altitude" as over 3,000ft you'd think there'd be more demand for a fix. I'm sorry to see again that LG/PV made a promise they won't keep.

JohnDanielsCPA

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like all you would have to do is add a "T" connection with a lever near the ALDE where the propane line comes in.  One direction, the propane comes into the ALDE unfettered.  In the other direction, the propane would be routed to a regulator that would reduce the propane flow from 10 WC (standard flow I presume) to 8 WC (the flow rate Alde is indicating the propane flow should be).   Is it that simple?

Tabaz

The "promise" is a cabin and water heater that operate at reasonable altitudes. Rather than dwell on the past, this seems like a simple solution as per John's comments above. Also, any "switching" from one regulator to another only happens twice a year in my side of the country. I'm more than willing to pay for a solution that works.

Nomad

Mine has worked with no rumble up to 5,000 - Maybe even 7 but can't recall if I had heat on at 7. Dual regulators does sound like a reasonable fix to me.
Frank - What's "reasonable" altitudes? To some, high. To others low. 

Edit-Add: Just checked - Two weeks at 7,600 with no problem. Another two weeks at 7,200 with no problem.

Tabaz

PXL - the problem doesn't affect all units. Another Phoenix TAB owner had no problems at 10,000 feet elevation. I'm just one of the unlucky ones. Most people in Phoenix travel to Flagstaff in the summer. 20 degrees cooler and only a 2 hour drive away. The noise from my Alde at that altitude precludes using the heater or water heater.  Lower altitudes in Arizona are too hot without running the A/C. 

Nomad

Understand the Flagstaff thing Frank - I'd be fleeing there myself :-)
Since some have the problem and some don't, seems to me the problem is something different than, or in addition to, the propane pressure. Like anything where there's not a constant, makes figuring out a cure rather difficult. Seems Alde - who should be the experts - need to get two units side-by-side and figure out what's different.
Not sure PV by themselves could ever figure it out.
After my experience with Norcold, I don't hold my breath on any manufacturer responding in a timely or satisfactory manner :-(

DurangoTaB

Facts: Scott said he'd negotiate our local, and only, RV dealer to support Alde maintenance...hasn't happened.  Scott said they'd work out a solution for the Alde at high altitudes...I see a diagram, but that's all.

Tabaz

I have been in contact with Ed at NuCamp while he attempts to fix this issue with Alde.  Ed is an honorable, concerned person who is doing everything he can to help those of us with the bad Aldes. Based on the email exchanges I've seen, Alde couldn't care less. Again, I'm way past placing blame - I just want to find a solution. I think Ed's hands are tied for legal issues being the manufacturer. I really like my TAB and will try to get this fixed absent any help from Alde and NuCamp.

Tabaz

DurangoTaB - perhaps you and I have the only two defective Alde units in the world. If so, that explains the lack of interest from Alde. Regardless, this seems like a "backyard mechanic" type problem that could be solved with a little common sense and familiarity with propane - both of which I lack in spades.

Nomad

Hey guys - Didn't someone have the problem and they solved it (or quieted it down) by messing around with the exhaust-intake hoses? Seems I recall something along that order - could be wrong though.

jkjenn

PXLated said:

Hey guys - Didn't someone have the problem and they solved it (or quieted it down) by messing around with the exhaust-intake hoses? Seems I recall something along that order - could be wrong though.

I don't think the solved the problem, I think they just added noise insulation.

OutbackAZ said:

DurangoTaB - perhaps you and I have the only two defective Alde units in the world. If so, that explains the lack of interest from Alde. Regardless, this seems like a "backyard mechanic" type problem that could be solved with a little common sense and familiarity with propane - both of which I lack in spades.

I noticed a little more rumble at about 9400'. 

Tabaz

PXL - your correct.  The noise comes from the flexible air intake hose vibrating against the solid metal exhaust pipe within it. There is a curve from the Alde to the intake/exhaust port on the exterior of the TAB. The vibration seems to emit from the area in the curve where the flex pipe touches the metal pipe within. Some owners have been lucky with using foam and other ways to separate the two pipes. One would think that Alde would have figured out a fix for this by now. I spoke with the dealer in Durango (very nice guy), who stated it's hit or miss with these units.  Most work, others need "tweaking." I'm not a tweaker. I also don't want to show a Rube Goldberg fix to a potential buyer of my TAB.

Nomad

Ahhhhh

wizard1880

Insulation of the sound is just a band aid though.  The root problem is that the burner combustion is too rich at high altitudes due to the thin air.  Too much fuel for so little air.

Over time, soot may start to build up inside the burner and cause other problems.  If you ever see black smoke coming from the Alde exhaust I would not use it, except if it's you're only source of heat.

I hope they come up with an official fix someday but the regulator solution is fine.  It does reduce the heat output slightly, but maybe not enough to notice.

Nomad

wizard - Why doesn't it affect all of us. Would seem if too rich, it'd be too rich for all of us.

ColoradoJon

I'm sure it affects all Alde system as far as the air/fuel mixture is concerned.  The noise is what is variable.  My Alde makes noise but it is not severe and does not wake me up at night like others have reported.  At 7,000 ft. my Alde doesn't make any noise.  Get it up over 8,000 ft. and it is noticeable but not bad.  At 10,200 ft. it was a good, decent rumble but still quiet enough to sleep.

Ratkity

Just an observation... forgive me if this was already suggested... If the flex pipe is within the main pipe and that is making the noise... wouldn't putting insulation inside to stop the flex pipe from rattling restrict the air flow and perhaps cause some CO back up or retard the exhausting and air flow and make the Alde work harder or become more inefficient (insulation is temp solution, I know)?

Also seems that the rattling without adjusting the running rich would be to put a metal support to hold the flex pipe still. 

Another reason why some other people don't have issues could be the way the piping was run. We all know that there are many configurations of how the water pipes and such are run - even mid-year. 

All this is conjecture. Again, apologies if it's redundant or isn't applicable as the OP wants a solution, not reasons.

Photomom

I know that some Roadtreks have Alde boilers. I briefly searched the Roadtrek FB page and found a number of issues but nothing about noise, so I posted a question there. If that's been a problem for them that has been resolved, it might help to know how. Or if for some reason it isn't a problem, it might help to know why.

Photomom

Thus far I have had 2 replies:

"We've camped at 8,000 feet with our propane Alde and have had no problems or unusual noises."

"Yes we had the issue while in the higher parts of Utah last year. The sound can be lessened by completely securing the exhaust line."

FWIW based on this limited data it seems to mirror the T@B experience. Will monitor and let you know if there is any other helpful info.

gbell

I had my dealer in CO replace the alde exhaust hose. If you notice in the Alde booklet the hose first of all is too short  and it is at at straight slant down to alde system, it is suppose to have an up then down bend in it so water can not flow directly into the Alde system, but you can not do this unless you have a longer hose system. So they ordered a longer hose set (the hose within a hose) and put that in.  Then I wrapped this hose in fiberglass insulation and duct tape, so when the two beat together it can't make noise into the tab.  I am at 6500 and tried it at home and so far it works. I haven't been able to take it to 8000 ft to try it. Not til this summer.  Also, Alde sent me 2 outside covers, that I am experimenting on with holes drilled in to the flat disk area to let more air inside.  Because if you take the exhaust cover off the sound also goes away. but again, this hasn't been verified at 8000 ft yet.  We are hoping this works.

wizard1880

Interesting find!  That cover has always looked restrictive to me, perhaps more air is all it needs.

Tabaz

Anyone know if the Norcold frig and propane stove would still work with a 8 WC regulator at higher altitudes?  If so, then why not have the 8 and 10 WC regulators in the tub and simply switch the propane hose between the two depending on type of camping for the season (low vs. high altitudes)?

Ratkity

The Norcold frig has the high altitude kit (if you have 2 round vents in the front). I think you wouldn't get a complete burn and see a yellow flame in the itty bitty window in the grommet (that I had to re-insert last year when it rolled out mysteriously). The extensive research I did on the Norcold (PXL was having issues too), the flame needs to run blue or the vent will accumulate soot. I think the stove wouldn't have that pretty blue flame either and soot pots and pans. Just my 2 cents. I like the t-junction and run an independent regulator to the Alde (easier said than done, eh?). Also interested in gbell's solution. 

Photomom, I looked at those Roadtreks.. wow. Those class B's are classy (and pricey).

fwillison

Has anyone successfully fixed this problem?

I had the freight train issue while camping last fall in Colorado.
In a couple of weeks I'll be heading to the Grand Canyon, south rim, elevation approximately 7000 ft. 
In anticipation of cold nights and the freight train returning, I've been researching solutions.  Clearly the issue is a too rich burn at the higher elevations (or even moderate elevations!).  The solution most discussed is reduction the pressure of the LP supply from the stock 10-11 inches water to 7-8 inches water.  I am probably going to give this a try, but I'm skeptical that it will work.  It's like a carburetor running too rich - reducing the pressure of the fuel pump (supply) isn't the solution.  You need to rejet it.  So too, I suspect the Alde needs to be "rejetted" for elevation.  Not sure why it is such a difficult thing for the manufacturer to address - pretty basic and would seem to affect most of it's customers!

If anyone has been able to solve it, please post!

Tabaz

May will be a year of waiting for a solution from Alde/NuCamp. Just cancelled my Yellowstone trip because of another missed deadline for a fix to this problem.

jkjenn

Now that Airstream unit that has an Alde, we can see if it is relateddirectly to the Alde or just the T@b Alde. If Airstream has the issue, maybe Alde will work harder to help find a solution.

fwillison

I don't think there is anything unique to the Alde in the TAB.  I think the problem must affect all of them.  It seems like such a basic fundamental issue, I really am shocked at the lack of interest by the manufacturer.  To have a heat system that is not usable at modest elevations is ludicrous.  
Apparently, there have been discussions with Alde and they recommended at 7-8 WC regulator.  I'm going to try this, but if it were that easy I'm sure there would have already been official guidance about it.  

fwillison

We need a kit similar to this:
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman-Air-Conditioner/HALP10-High-Altitude-LP-Gas-Kit-for-Gas-Furnaces-7001-11000-Feet/14568.ac?gclid=CKmkgN_lgNMCFQ2BaQodLjcFew