Spare tire discussion (rant)!

AaronC

We recently bought a 2016 CS-S that we love. Have done six camping trips since May. However, I'd love to know what the designer of the spare tire mount was thinking (I suspect there was no actual thought involved). Before our first outing I did a dry run to be sure the bolts weren't frozen, etc. Tire came off just fine. Has any normal human ever succeeded in putting the tire back on those two bolts??? HAH! Well nigh impossible. I do not have room on my tongue for the spare, and don't want to carry it in the TV either. Is there a cradle anyone know of to mount at the back of the trailer? If only nuCamp had given this even a nanosecond of thought! 

Admin note: changed title because everyone has helped in be way or another!  Thanks owners for coming to his rescue!—Verna T@B Administrator

Verna

@AaronC, the spare tire was under the rear of every T@B manufactured since 2012, and probably when Dutchman’s and Thor manufactured them also. There’s no sense in being angry about it. NüCamp just recently began installing a lift mechanism under the tongue box—1st choice of many owners. 

You have 3 other choices. Leave it where it is (you’ll scrape it on sharp, steep entry ways into gas stations, etc.), you can mount it on the tongue (you said you didn’t want to, but most have done that), or you could get a roof rack to install on the rear of your T@B (you must be precise with your measurements to screw into the aluminum frame under the outside skin).

You could also choose to check your tow vehicle’s lug pattern to see if your spare tires are the same and then you can take a chance and leave the T@B’s spare at home. 

AaronC

Not as much angry (I agree there's no sense in that) as mystified at totally thoughtless design. I'm curious what the under-the-tongue lift mechanism is all about. Maybe I can retrofit. A good design woulda, coulda, shoulda been an under-floor basket/rack at the back of the trailer, which would have permitted sliding the wheel out, and just as easily in. I have tried putting the wheel back on those two bolts, and have given up after scraping up elbows, straining neck and arms, using jacks, etc. OK, confession, I might have had some nasty thoughts about whoever thought their original solution was an acceptable idea (:

jkjenn

Thoughtless? I am sure quite a bit of thought went into it, mainly how to save space and put the tire somewhere that would not impact tongue weight. These trailers were originally built on aluminum frames (DM T@bs) and weight was a real issue.

Thankfully, as with most things, design evolves and they are no longer using this design.

Marceline

AaronC said:

We recently bought a 2016 CS-S that we love. Have done six camping trips since May. However, I'd love to know what the designer of the spare tire mount was thinking (I suspect there was no actual thought involved). Before our first outing I did a dry run to be sure the bolts weren't frozen, etc. Tire came off just fine. Has any normal human ever succeeded in putting the tire back on those two bolts??? HAH! Well nigh impossible. I do not have room on my tongue for the spare, and don't want to carry it in the TV either. Is there a cradle anyone know of to mount at the back of the trailer? If only nuCamp had given this even a nanosecond of thought! 

I have a 2013 CS-S and my spare is on the tongue. A lot of people do it this way.

Sharon_is_SAM

@AaronC - depending on what you put on your tongue weight wise, you may benefit by a little extra tongue weight by having the tire up front.  

AaronC

I would be happy to return the spare to its spot under the back end of the trailer, but the problem is lifting the tire then securing it to those two bolts while lying flat on my back with no room to maneuver. I'm fairly strong and agile for 67, but I've tried several times using jacks, etc., and no cigar. A basket to hold the tire, which could then be easily slid in or removed from the back of the trailer, would be the smart solution. I have close to 100 lbs worth of Stromberg hitch receiver, bike rack, and two long-wheelbase recumbent bikes on the tongue, as well as a Prodigy RF brake controller. I think putting the spare and a mount for it on the tongue would bring my tongue weight right to my max of 350 lbs. I'm a little leery of that. Should I relax about that? Open to suggestions. We pull with a 2014 Ford Escape with factory tow package, and it's a great combo with the CS-S. 

AaronC

And I guess my question--better than a rant, I admit--is, has anyone out there ever returned a tire to that two-bolt mount? If so, how'd ya do it??? This old dog is happy to learn a new trick. 

Denny16

Not an easy task, by the sounds of it.
cheers

VictoriaP

AaronC said:

I would be happy to return the spare to its spot under the back end of the trailer, but the problem is lifting the tire then securing it to those two bolts while lying flat on my back with no room to maneuver. I'm fairly strong and agile for 67, but I've tried several times using jacks, etc., and no cigar. A basket to hold the tire, which could then be easily slid in or removed from the back of the trailer, would be the smart solution. I have close to 100 lbs worth of Stromberg hitch receiver, bike rack, and two long-wheelbase recumbent bikes on the tongue, as well as a Prodigy RF brake controller. I think putting the spare and a mount for it on the tongue would bring my tongue weight right to my max of 350 lbs. I'm a little leery of that. Should I relax about that? Open to suggestions. We pull with a 2014 Ford Escape with factory tow package, and it's a great combo with the CS-S. 

Do not exceed your tongue weight limit. Ideally, you shouldn’t exceed 80% of it...with all that already on there + battery & propane, you might want to weigh it soon. A too-heavy tongue can damage the structure of your tow vehicle.

I agree the rear tire holder is not a user friendly design. If I weren’t the type to simply leave the problem to AAA, I’d probably try to lever the tire up one side at a time with stacks of 2x4s (or lego-style levelers) to support the tire weight while I bolted it on. Maybe call your dealer. The tires were historically shipped under the dinette and installed on the bracket by the dealer, so hopefully the service dept has enough practice and can advise on how to do it more easily.

Marceline

AaronC said:

I would be happy to return the spare to its spot under the back end of the trailer, but the problem is lifting the tire then securing it to those two bolts while lying flat on my back with no room to maneuver. I'm fairly strong and agile for 67, but I've tried several times using jacks, etc., and no cigar. A basket to hold the tire, which could then be easily slid in or removed from the back of the trailer, would be the smart solution. I have close to 100 lbs worth of Stromberg hitch receiver, bike rack, and two long-wheelbase recumbent bikes on the tongue, as well as a Prodigy RF brake controller. I think putting the spare and a mount for it on the tongue would bring my tongue weight right to my max of 350 lbs. I'm a little leery of that. Should I relax about that? Open to suggestions. We pull with a 2014 Ford Escape with factory tow package, and it's a great combo with the CS-S. 

I wouldn't add the spare to all that weight and doubt that you could fit in on there, anyways. Sorry I don't have any idea how to get it back on the mount under the trailer. I took mine off specifically because I knew that it would be a problem if I ever needed it. Are you using the roof of your tow vehicle? Could you throw it in a roof rack basket up top? I know that there are people who travel without the spare but that's not for me. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Check this out:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5887/cargo-deck-storage-and-spare-wheel-mods

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10643/the-spare-tire-dilemma-solved

And DurangoTab had a way to return the spare to the mount:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/1716/warning-spare-tire-nut-size-different

We drove with the spare on our van roof for a short time.  Too noisy.  We now carry it in the third row seat boot.
I agree with Marceline - too much tongue weight.

ADRawli

I bet you could figure out how to put an after market spare tire hoist on your trailer, but running the cable to an accessible point might be tricky.   

Or, maybe something like this could help lift/hold it in place to line up the bolts. Still seems like a lot just for the very rare need (at least one would hope it “rare”) to put the spare back in place. 

Otherwise, I’d think 3 people, 2 to lift hold, 1 to screw on the nuts, might work.  Sounds like an insensitive joke I used to know that had something to do with “how many ____ does it take to screw in a lightbulb?  

Anyway, hope you find an acceptable idea. Does seem like an answer to one problem (flat tire) causing a second (unable to return spare into place), that missed a solution somewhere. 

AaronC

Thanks all! I appreciate the people on this forum. You make having the camper even more fun than it already is, and it's a lot of fun! My rant began out of frustration with dumb design. (I'm a design nerd.) Even a good company like nuCamp should pay attention to the details. My solution now is just to keep the darn thang underneath the dinette, which we keep set up as a bed all the time anyway. 

Verna

@AaronC, should I have been inclined to put my spare back underneath, and since I do not have the upper body strength of men, I would use my “LEGO” leveling blocks and a 2”x4”x4’ as a lever to help lift the tire higher as I made two stacks of Legos and carefully raised the tire until the Legos brought it up to the height of needed to it the tire back on the bolts.

If you had a pneumatic tire jack, it could be used to lift the tire into place, also. 

Personally, I prefer AAA. 

AaronC

Ah yes, the fun I had with my bottle jack and other devices trying to do it. But no matter, the spare tire will get to sleep with us on the next trip, cozy on the floor under the bed. Might lead us to want to get a dog instead! Meanwhile, here's how the tongue of the camper is otherwise occupied...

Verna

I understand....

Marceline

AaronC said:

Ah yes, the fun I had with my bottle jack and other devices trying to do it. But no matter, the spare tire will get to sleep with us on the next trip, cozy on the floor under the bed. Might lead us to want to get a dog instead! Meanwhile, here's how the tongue of the camper is otherwise occupied...

Maybe if you put a stack of cast iron pots in the cabinets at the back you could have your tire on the tongue. 😆

xpatico

I was getting my panties in a wad trying to sort out the whole mess of how to get the spare back onto its mount. But then approached the problem from a logistic viewpoint. Scenario: you have a flat. remove the spare. jack up the punctured wheel, remove it, put on the spare, put the flat tire in the camper or tv. go to tire shop, fix the puncture, tire mechanic puts the repaired wheel back on trailer, also, he puts spare back to its mount under the rear of trailer. someone elses problem. DONE

cmac

We carry our spare for our 2007 Clamshell (Dutchman) in the back of our Colorado - clear up front - driver's side - secured from movement with a 1" ratchet strap around the tire and thru the pickup bed tie-down loop.   So far, we have not needed to use it!  We place an extra 10lb. propane tank inside the upside down tire with towel cushions then place extra electrical and water hose coiled around the propane tank for storage.  Works for us to maximize space usage.

rfuss928

I have seen a couple DIY adaptations using the spare tire lift parts from a pick-up truck.  Strategically located near the existing spare tire mount and fastened to the floor.  It may be similar to the lift on the new T@Bs but in the rear.  I mounted mine to the front box and don't know the details of the lift mod. 

Roamey

@AaronC
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/104506#Comment_104506
See above link-how to remove your spare tire

Vig

Regarding a 2020 T@B 320S, if I move the spare tire to the front, is the spare tire holder attached strongly enough to hold anything else that would help balance the weight?  

I tow with a Subaru with a 200 lb tongue weight limit.  I am under the 2,700 lb total weight limit for the TV.  

I was thinking of creating a bracket that bolted to the tire holder (with braces to the steel beam in front to prevent side torque) and then weld that bracket to a  2" receiver.  Then some kind of commercial or DIY cargo basket could be attached.  

1) What structural member is the tire holder attached to and how strong is it?
2) Has anyone tried this?

VictoriaP

Vig said:

Regarding a 2020 T@B 320S, if I move the spare tire to the front, is the spare tire holder attached strongly enough to hold anything else that would help balance the weight?  

I tow with a Subaru with a 200 lb tongue weight limit.  I am under the 2,700 lb total weight limit for the TV.  

I was thinking of creating a bracket that bolted to the tire holder (with braces to the steel beam in front to prevent side torque) and then weld that bracket to a  2" receiver.  Then some kind of commercial or DIY cargo basket could be attached.  

1) What structural member is the tire holder attached to and how strong is it?
2) Has anyone tried this?

Have you actually weighed your tongue with the trailer loaded to camp? I’d be stunned to find you have enough capacity left out of that 200 lbs to accomodate the tire and a bracket. 

Vig

I am sure your are right that if I moved the spare tire to the front, I would be over the 200 lb limit.  That is why I am trying to balance the weight by adding a cargo basket to the back using the spare tire holder in the rear.

I am quite interested to find out if that is even remotely feasible.   

VictoriaP

Vig said:

I am sure your are right that if I moved the spare tire to the front, I would be over the 200 lb limit.  That is why I am trying to balance the weight by adding a cargo basket to the back using the spare tire holder in the rear.

I am quite interested to find out if that is even remotely feasible.   

My understanding is basically this is a no-go per nüCamp. https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10775/rear-spare-tire-mounting-area-on-t-320s That area is not structurally designed to hold a receiver and additional weight of any sort.  Others have wanted to do similar to hold a bike rack.

But aside from that, increasing your overall trailer weight while trying to keep the tongue weight at 200 lbs just makes towing with your Subaru less safe. If you manage to stay at 200 lbs (which is not easy when dealing with a recent model Tab) your tongue weight is already almost certainly below the 10% minimum of total trailer weight recommended for towing without sway...ideal is 12-15%. And if you go above 200, you risk the structural integrity of the car. If you’re towing with a barely adequate tow vehicle & so close to the limit, you really need to weigh that tongue every time you take the trailer out.

Vig

I believe my question about the integral structure of the rear spare tire mount has been answered. The structural capacity (plywood) is too low even with braces bolted to the beam in front to withstand even 50 lbs in a DIY cargo basket due to torque.  Thanks Victoria P for the link.  

And thanks for the info on weight and swaying.  

VictoriaP

Vig said:

I believe my question about the integral structure of the rear spare tire mount has been answered. The structural capacity (plywood) is too low even with braces bolted to the beam in front to withstand even 50 lbs in a DIY cargo basket due to torque.  Thanks Victoria P for the link.  

And thanks for the info on weight and swaying.  

You’re welcome. Sorry it isn’t better news.

Marceline

Vig said:

I am sure your are right that if I moved the spare tire to the front, I would be over the 200 lb limit.  That is why I am trying to balance the weight by adding a cargo basket to the back using the spare tire holder in the rear.

I am quite interested to find out if that is even remotely feasible.   

It’s not a cheap solution, but a lithium battery weighs a heck of a lot less than a conventional battery (wet or AGM). 

VictoriaP

Marceline said:

Vig said:

I am sure your are right that if I moved the spare tire to the front, I would be over the 200 lb limit.  That is why I am trying to balance the weight by adding a cargo basket to the back using the spare tire holder in the rear.

I am quite interested to find out if that is even remotely feasible.   

It’s not a cheap solution, but a lithium battery weighs a heck of a lot less than a conventional battery (wet or AGM). 

Cheaper than a new car, that’s for sure! 😁 That might buy some 30 lbs or so back. Doesn’t solve the problem of being maxed out to your vehicle tongue weight limit and still under the 10% tongue weight for safety issue though. 

I hemmed and hawed for a full year trying to find a way around that problem that didn’t involve changing cars. I finally came to the conclusion that a 200 lb tongue weight limit is only doable with the older, lighter trailers. Even very lightly packed, with empty tanks and with the extra 100 lbs of Purpleline trailer mover behind the axle, my 2019 weighs in at 185 on the tongue and about 2200 overall...IF I carried all my groceries in the front seat of the car. At that tongue weight, it’s a very bouncy ride that sways pretty easily. The 2018-2020 Tab 320 models are just plain heavy compared to their predecessors, and tongue weight should probably be around 250 to tow them safely.